This is probably an old question but sadly it is new to me - so please think of me as your best friend's five year old and be kind.

I sent the synopsis and first chapters of my first novel to my first agent. I was expecting rejection - but I didn't think it would take 7 weeks. Perfectly courteous when it came - a firm but kindly no and it was a letter rather than a slip - might even have had my name on it? That was quick, said a fellow writer.

Since then I've collected a few more - record for a swift turnaround was 48 hours but anything up to 8 weeks.

So - obviously 48 hours sends an unmistakeable message - but does the delay mean someone might have looked at it - or does it just mean it got lost or has sat in an ever increasing pile until finally they think, enough's enough, and do a quick envelope shuffle simply to clear their desk?

Is there any way of telling if you've missed by an millimetre or a mile? And for those of you out there lucky enough to know - if an agent is interested do they usually contact you sooner rather than later?

Just curious!

optimist

Oh Optimist - I had an agent 'bite' in 1987, which was encouraging at first then turned to 'close, no cigar' - and then I got taken up in 2004 - which is, uh, 17.5 years. And you can get an agent and still not get an offer from a publisher.

But what can I say? You need a thick skin, and you need to believe in what you're doing. You need "time, strength, cash, and patience"(Ishmael in Moby Dick). Others will no doubt have opinions on how to 'read' agents' reactions.

Joe

I'm not sure there is any way of telling, unless there's something in their rejection letter. I sent out a mass submission of synop. and sample ch. in late April to seven biggish name agents. The last one got back to me a couple of weeks ago to say that she was very interested. The first was a rejection, but so was the second last - about three weeks ago. So I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to it. I was rather charmed by one well-known agent's assistant who emailed, after a long time and full of apologies, along the lines of 'we've just found your chapters buried in his office, and we know it's probably too late but...'

Alex Keegan's article about handling rejection, which I posted a link to last week, might also apply to agents. Maybe we should all just firmly decide to believe that if it takes ages, it's because they were really interested, rather than that they're hopelessly chaotic. It might even be true.

Emma

Thanks Emma and Jo Po,

re the Alex Keegan article - I bought a rare lottery ticket on the strength of it and won £80 - so life is not all bad!

!987 - 2004 - now that shows commitment. Good on you!

optimist

Optimist I know what you're going through. It's disconcerting getting rejection after rejection - you just have to keep polishing then resending and in the end you'll get there! There's no logic in agent's rejections - often you'll find with the bigger agencies, it's gone to a reader who has rejected it. Readers in my opinion are the biggest bar to writers getting agents these days. The other thing is time - this industry is incredibly slow.

The science, I think, is there is no exact science. My first novel took 35 tries over a year and a half period before I even got someone to read it. Six months after that, I got a contract.

Don't take it personally. Remember that they told George Orwell he would never be published on either side of the Atlantic and that J G Ballard was beyond psychiatric help.

Most of all, remember that he who dares wins, and fortune favours the brave.

JB

It's true James, fortune does favour the brave, but it also favours the gormless, stupid, crass, etc.

In terms of books just look at any effort by Dan Brown, James Patterson, Tony Parsons or any two out of three three for two offers in most bookshops.

I've yet to start sumitting my stuff to agents but I have to say I'm kind of looking forward to it. Maybe I'll be a little more jaded by the time I get to my thirty fifth attempt. we shall see.

Geoff

Thanks everyone - my original post probably came over a little more Eeyore like than I'd intended!

Yes , fortune does favour the brave and those not afraid to stick their head over the parapet.

Something I read and liked was, "try never to be afraid to do anything because what is the worst that can happen?"

optimist

Death, paralysis, chronic vegetative state, amputation, inadvertent shearing of sexual organs, being told you look like David Blunkett's uglier brother, etc.

A quote I like is "It's not brave if you're not scared."

Whereabouts in Hull are you Sarah? Thoresby Street then Bransholme then Sutton for me. Had to get out eventually though, you really are an optimist!

Geoff

Optimist,

Last year I took the plunge and approached half a dozen agents. After they all rejected me I realised my manuscript didn’t have the right X-factor, maybe that was a little rash of me, after so few rejections, or perhaps it was very wise. Anyway, that was when I started shelling out money to book doctors and editors, which I have to say, was the smartest money I’ve ever spent. As I found out very quickly what I was doing wrong.

The problem with submitting to agents is that you will likely fail, but you’ll have no idea why. If after a while you’re sick of getting your own envelopes returned, then perhaps it’ll be time for professional help…

Anyway, I’m aiming for early in the New Year to start sending out to agents again, who knows?

Good luck, and don’t let them grind you down.

Grinder

I had an agent back in the 1980's, she didn't manage to do anything for me, then unfourtunatly she died. Since then I have aproached a number of agents to no avail, I have got one waiting in the sidlines to see if any of my books take off then maybe they will put me on their books?
If you are a well know person then you will have agents crawling all over you if you write a book.
I could however wallpaper my loo with rejection slips from agents and publishers collected over the last 30 years, in fact I might do this one day when I have made it big time, if that ever happens?
My advice is just never give up my friend because 'You will eventually win if you try, you will never know what can happen but you will lose if you don't try'
Have fun, life is too short not to, Linda

At a rough count, I've had around 70 rejections - mainly agents, a few publishers in the days when it was still fairly worth submitting to them. I think Grinder's suggestion of some book-doctoring can be money extremely well spent. A Masters is more of a commitment, but can be more wide-ranging and long-term useful in what you learn. I heard Hilary Johnson speak the other day, and was so impressed by the trouble she's prepared to take with everyone.

Good luck, and don't despair!
Emma

They're actually quite artful at times. After submitting his work to an agent, a friend of mine was sent back an invitation to do a private print run with whichever publisher at a cost of £X thousand to himself. The letter was personalised and very plausible - along the lines that they had fulfilled their quota with this publisher for that year, but could fit his book in via this route. Clearly a money-raising scheme devised between the agent and publisher, I thought. Then I read the cynical description of this route to publication in Umberto Eco's Focault's Pendulum and realised that it's widespread and evidently draws in a lot of punters.

As for my friend, he gave up in disgust despite my earnest coaxing to keep at the agents. When I've finished my novel I will give them a very professional blitz and be sufficiently persistant that I stand at least some hope of beating the odds. Well, it sounds good in theory ;-)

Andy

Personally, I find rejection tough and I have yet to find an good way to take it. It's all very well to try to convince yourself to look at it in a positive way and to consider that this is, in large part, a numbers game but I just can't do it. Every rejection throws me off for a day or two, I don't sleep very well and I mull over every nuance of the rejection. Funnily enough, for me, the nicer and the more personal the rejection, the harder it is to take. The form rejections, I can shrug off to some extent but the ones where the agent has obviously read the thing fully and has taken the time to write a personal response hit me hardest. In the last reponse, an agent who read the whole manuscript said lots of nice things and said that she had been sitting on it for a week hesitating to take it on but ultimately said no because she had another 'Irish novelist' on her books whose work she had difficulty in placing. You can imagine how special that made me feel. I was fairly upset over that one and since then haven't managed to get the wounds to seal over enough to get back into the ring for another bout.
One of the hardest things about writing is that a good writer needs to have a certain level of sensitivity but, to get published, needs to have the hide of a rhinoceros.

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BYW, I'm not trying to imply that I'm a good writer or that I have the necessary sensitivity to become one but I'm fairly sure that I'm missing the rhinoceros outfit.

One of the hardest things about writing is that a good writer needs to have a certain level of sensitivity but, to get published, needs to have the hide of a rhinoceros.

I think that's very true, and that more detailed the rejection, in some ways the more it hurts. It really can throw you off balance, and no amount of pointing out that it's very personal, that it maybe nothing to do with your writing - like your Irish example, Ashlinn, how infuriating that must have been! - and that whoever famous was rejected by however many publishers, takes the sting out of that mixture of humiliation and frustration.

I find rejection affects my self esteem in other areas of life too: when I've had something back, every shop window makes me look badly dressed or overweight or both. But the really lethal thing is how it affects your writing; I find it makes me self-conscious, trying to please the rejector and losing sight of my own sense of what works and what doesn't (which isn't to say that you should never put what they've said to work, if not take it to heart). On the day I've had a rejection I don't try to write at all, and maybe not for a day or two afterwords. If I had a plan in place (like submitting to the next agent on the list, or applying for a course, or emailing a friend in the trade for advice) I put it into action, and then I go shopping or get drunk. There is an awkward time of day, between the shops closing and it being late enough to open a bottle of wine respectably, when the only answer is chocolate and a glossy mag.

Emma