Hi, Just wanted to share my good (and slightly terrifying!) news that an editor at Arrow Books (Random House) has read the sample chapters I sent in 3 months ago and requested more. I got an email from her last week requesting the full ms after thoroughly enjoying my opening.

Trouble is, I haven't got a full ms yet so am waiting (trying to concentrate at work!) for her thoughts on what I have written. Maybe, just maybe they'll offer me something based on part one? It's always worth hoping

I'll keep anyone who cares informed!

Luke

Hi Luke

Well done and all that, but this kind of thing annoys me somehow. How can anyone expect someone to reasonably judge an incomplete product, one unedited and formed into a cohesive whole? THAT is the entire skill of writing a novel, it has a beginning, a middle and an end.

It seems impatient to me, when authors seek to submit unfinished work, and makes me question their motives. Is being published more important to you than the art of writing itself?

Each to their own, and I really hope it works out for you, but I'm tired of this question. The answer is obvious!

JB

Luke, that's confidence-boosting news for you, well done. You'll just have to pray that she is still interested/thinks it's right for the market/still in business by the time you can get back to her with the whole, revised and re-revised thing, I guess.

Good luck!

Emma

Wax,
I take your point and it's a valid one. But if an editor finds something worth investing in then who am I to argue? I know the chances of a deal at this stage are slim to nil but then I thought that of being picked out the slush pile.
As for my motivations for writing - it's a bit unfair to aak that isn't it? Would you ask a journalist the same question? I write for myself but that doesn't mean I have to keep it for myself.

I probably wouldn't have submitted this now as I do agree with the line 'wait until it's either ready or nearly' but this submission came 4 months ago, after my Litidol success so I thought: 'why the hell not'.

so far I'm not regretting it.


Luke

I would ask a journalist that if they were sending half finished articles to magazines, yes. In my experience, this is exactly what could get an agents back up and spoil a deal.

What I meant was, the fact you are submitting before the work is done, it seems to suggest that getting published is MORE important than finishing the work, I don't mean to be rude, but I'm nothing if not honest. To me, finishing a book is a lot more than writing the last sentence. Once the last sentence is down, a professional writer will generally return to the first and begin an edited draft. I don't know how far along in that phase you are, but it doesn't sound as though it's been done at all.

If an agent gets three perfectly edited and shaped chapters, and the rest of the book isn't sculpted to suit and missing an ending, surely that's not going to come across as very professional. You usually only get the one shot and it is really difficult. It bears a lot of considered thought and polishing before taking that shot, in my opinion. That's just from the benefit of my experience. It took three drafts and three rounds of submitting before my novel was accepted for publication.

Why? Because I was impatient and dazzled by the illusory lights. Now, I'll hold my horses, finish my book, edit it fully, polish and revise and THEN send it out.

Good luck anyway.

JB

Thanks for the sermon JB. I'll keep you posted and try and be a better person in the future...

<Added>

Sorry, I should have mentioned it is nearly finished and has been professionally read, edited and re-re-drafted.
(But I still take your point)

Ten hail Mary's and the Lord's Prayer, and you'll be ok.

JB (climbing down from pulpit)

In some cases it is worth pitching early. I was doing an experimental piece a while back and pitched it as a question, asking if there was a place in the market for this kind of material. Three agents got back to me saying basically the same: Good writing, but it didn't work, which has saved me a lot of wasted time because, to be honest, I wasn't too confident with it.

The fourth agent asked for the full script, but I don't think it's worth continuing with.

Colin M

Yes, I'm not setting the cat among the pigeons Colin, but surely that just means you're more interested in being published than writing what's in your heart and mind?

JB

<Added>

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just curious what other people's take is on this.

Goodness knows there are plenty of people around who want to be an author, rather than wanting to write. At least some (like your friend, JB) get their comeuppance.

But wouldn't we all like a commission before we start? Otherwise the advance just pays off the overdraft you acquired while writing the book. If I could have sold my novel before I'd written it, I would have, but it can't be done for literary-ish fiction.

I think it depends on what the primary selling point of your work is - the idea, or the execution? My novel isn't a novel I want to put my name to until it's as perfectly written as I can make it. But if I had a cracking idea for a non-fiction book, where the word-by-word quality of the writing is subsidiary - it's only got to be adequate to my purpose, after all - I might well submit the idea and structure, with a sample of my writing and maybe my journalism track record if I had one. If not to try and get it commissioned, then at least along the, 'would you be interested if I submitted it to you' lines, to weed out the ones who really wouldn't be. It's much more possible for an agent/editor to be confident of what they're going to end up with in that context than they ever could with a novel.

Emma

Well yes and no. I think you have to balance the two, depending on your ultimate goal. Yes, I'd like to be published, but I think it is essential to learn to walk before attempting the olympic 100 metres, which isn't such a bad analogy when you consider the competition. Typical agent's slush pile: 2000 submissions per year. Typical amount of new writers taken on per year: 2. Therefore it's important to be realistic and understand that getting to the olympics isn't within your reach unless you work at it.

But, once you've got the skills, then you really have to take a professional approach. You can look at the market and get a good idea of what is and isn't selling. The wizard market is getting a bit boring, so if it takes eighteen months to write and polish a novel, plus another twelve to get it on the shelves, then you've probably missed the boat completely. Some genres simply don't sell. "Meccanno Flowers for Girls", the story of a boarding school for apprentice terrorists, the good drug guide for under twelves. But sometimes it isn't so easy for us on the outside of the industry to see the more subtle patterns and trends, in which case it's probably a good idea to do a bit of market research.

But making a submission at a very early stage, then I'm inclined to agree. Not even inclined. I just agree.

Colin M



<Added>

sorry, that was a direct reply to James (waxlyrical) - just in case it comes across as confusing.

Very thought provoking answers from both of you. However, I personally would never submit a synopsis to a book I hadn't written. I don't think it's any guarentee of success at all, and could easily backfire in the opposite direction.

You are basically saying that you have an idea, and the next important thing is whether you can sell that idea Colin. If you can't, stuff the idea. To me, that's a very corporate appraoch to writing.

For me, if I have an idea that's worth writing a synopsis about, it's because something has captured my imagination in such a powerful way as to make me want to sacrifice my social life in order to create it on paper. It's the thrill and the challenge of doing that, I believe, that makes good writing. The blood on the tracks, the sweat between the lines.

If later on, said book is rejected by a zillion agents, so what? My skill would have improved just in the act of writing it, and I would have stayed true to myself and the artistic overmind.

That's what I believe in my heart to be the most important thing.

JB


<Added>

Of course, you're a fine writer Colin. I just don't think I'd feel safe doing it that way.

<Added>

What I mean is, during the creative process, I think my art would change if I was writing with an agent's interest in mind. My interest has to come first, every time.

<Added>

...and what if a synopsis is chosen, and you can't write the damn thing? It happens.

Very admirable. But I'm not talking about being a corporate tart or butterfly and asking which bandwaggon is worth joining, because I think those writers can be spotted. My problem wasn't a genre or a plot, it was to do with character development, and the problem of having your secondary character far more interesting than your primary. Say, for example, you wanted to tell a story of a rock star's roadie. If you keep the rock star out of it, then it will work. If you don't, and the light shines too bright on Mr Manson (or whoever) then you get a problem, because you want to focus the story on the lesser character, but the audience try to focus on the rock star. The turmoil this creates in the reader leads to an uncomfortable read. The thing is, this was the point of what I was trying to write. I wanted to have that turmoil as a central theme. But all the editors simply said "No. Good idea. Doesn't work."

I like that idea, and I know it must be tougher in a children's market for starters. I can see why you'd want to hedge your bets in terms of character, but without meaning to be patronising, I'd be wary that the 'business' doesn't stifle your natural creativity.

Of course, I'm not saying people shouldn't strive to be published. It is an admirable goal. But I have a bit of an us and them attitude and I honestly couldn't give a toss what an agent/publisher tells me what 'works' or not. Sure, I'm open to advice. What I mean is I don't believe they know as much as they make out.

I'm always reminded about George Orwell and Animal Farm, when he was told there was no way his book would be published on either side of the Atlantic. Or when an agent told JG Ballard he was 'beyond psychiatric help'.

Agents and publishers are hunting for their next meal. Some of them are nice, but they are all in the game, aren't they? They all want money from your art. I want to be published, but I'm not prepared to play that game in any shape or form while the cake is half cooked so to speak.

JB

For myself I can't imagine embarking on the huge, exhausting year-long business of writing a novel without the absolute, necessary, driving PASSION to write what wants to be written. But maybe some people find filling a gap in the market generates that kind of passion for them, and their sales are probably better than mine will be.

Having always subscribed to the view that you write what you write, as well as you can, and then try to find someone who wants it, I'm now in the position of having had my next, unwritten novel already commissioned and partly paid for, and by an editor with whom I've had long conversations (battles?) about the writing of the last one, so I know something of what she likes and doesn't like. It's difficult not to worry about what that consciousness will do to the new one, even though I know I mustn't. Even my agent has said, 'forget about the publisher while you write it. Totally. We'll worry about them when it's done.'

Emma