Well, editors do talk to each other....

And I don't see that there is any need to wait to submit the manuscript. Why not submit it as soon as it's ready?

Coming into this late, because I've been away. Thanks for the congrats, Sheila.

Apologies if I'm going over old ground, but I've only skimmed down the thread.

First of all, anyone who's been offered a contract by a publisher OR AN AGENT is entitled to apply to join the Society of Authors, and if you enclose the contract with your form and cheque, they'll check it for you word by word by clause by clause, and get a very full report back to you within a couple of days. They also do very thorough guides to things like contracts, which anyone can buy for a few pounds, and members can have free. Personally, I think anyone who gets an agent or publisher and doesn't join them is mad - £85 a year, and less if you're under 30(?) is a lot cheaper than a lawyer, and of course it's tax deductible. They'll also advise about good agents and publishers. Whenever I hear about someone being ripped off, I want to weep, because it's not so hard to avoid! The Writers Guild do similar things with a bias towards screenwriters and playwrights.

http:/www.societyofauthors.co.uk

There is also a very good book by Michael Legat, called 'An Author's Guide to Publishing'. Published I think by A&C Black. He's been publisher and author, and knows what he's talking about. I think libraries should have it.

In case it helps anyone, the important elements of my contract with Headline go roughly like this. (I can't check, because all three copies have gone back with my signature to Headline for theirs. I know, I know, I should have copied it first, but it's got about 20 pages):

Headline will publish within 18 months of delivery and acceptance of the novel. They are obliged to accept it provided it's 'of a publishable standard'. Should be published by March 2007, therefore. The mass-market paperback must be published within a year of that date. The second novel is to be delivered by July 2007, (eek!)and then the same will apply. It is possible to agree an extension of that date.

The advance on royalties is paid in quarters - one on sig of contract, one on del and acc. of MS, one on hardback and the simultaneous trade (i.e. big) paperback publication, and one on mass market A or B format (i.e. small) paperback publication. It's a two-book deal, so I get two quarters for signing for both of them now, and the rest as and when separately for each book.

Royalties, are 10% of hb and 7.5% of pb cover price. I don't get a penny of them till they've covered the advance. Then I get them every 6 months, until sales are over a certain level (roughly the projected first print run), then the percentage goes up a bit. Headline are allowed to hold back a proportion of royalties against returns from the bookshops, because bookshops have the books on sale or return.

Still with me? Yes, it's all so boring and so important.

There is a first-refusal clause for my next (third! aargh!) novel, but it is only a promise to send it to them first. They then come up with an offer for it, for me to accept or reject, before it's offered to other publishers. I haven't written the second one yet, so I'm not in the position JB's in.

As I remember, one of the worries with the Macmillan arrangement, which I think is otherwise rather innovative, was that you HAD to let them have the next book on the same terms as before, which would stop you selling it to someone else who offered you a better deal. But maybe it would be worth it!

Emma

Hi Emma, and many many congratulations on your own deal - it's truly impressive.

The second book option part of the contract was the thing that gave me the biggest wobble, but I showed the contract to my agent and his advice, to cut a long story short, was to sign the damn contract. He is a good agent, very established, though independent, not part of some big conglomerate. Like Clare Alexander, he is a former publisher (unless I'm getting mixed up about Clare Alexander).

Most agents are against the Macmillan deal because no advance means nothing in it for them. When I said to him, "There's not a lot in it for you," his reply was "There's nothing in it for me, but that's not a reason why you shouldn't do it."

There are reasons why these things make sense for certain writers at certain times.

The 'second book' is a bridge I shall cross when I come to it. As I understand it, what they have is an 'option' on a work that doesn't exist. Right now, I'm just glad that my first book will be out in 2006. The stuff about the advance, I think, is a bit of a red herring, and believe it or not, I think I would feel under enormous pressure if I had been paid a huge advance (chance would be a fine thing!). A small advance might have been nice - but the value of it would have been purely symbolic.

I had the chance to say no to this offer. I could have waited for a better one. The reason I said yes was because I wanted to get my book out there for people to read. I've gone into it pretty much with my eyes open. Time will tell whether I've been a fool.

Roger.

<Added>

I should add that I have been enormously impressed with Mike Barnard in all my dealings with him - he seems a pretty straight up guy. He says he's going to do something and he does it. I've had emails from him that have been sent on Sundays and at 6 am. It seems to me he's working round the clock to make this thing a success. He may well turn out to screw me over in the second contract, but there is an interesting phrase in the contract that leaves it open for a better deal on the Second Work: 'unless the parties shall agree otherwise, the Author will enter into an agreement with the Publisher in respect of the Second Work on terms identical to those set out in this Agreement.' I take that as meaning there may be room for negotiation if they really want the second book. But again I may be deluding myself.

Roger, many thanks. I do think the Macmillan deal is an honest attempt to get round the dead weight of other-department approval that stops editors being able to take on risky books that they believe in, and your experience so far sounds as if I'm not far wrong.

Your agent sounds as if he knows what he's talking about. (yes, like Clare. She was Ed-in-Chief I think, at Macmillan, and is now part of Gillon Aitken which is pretty small. Many of the best agents operate on their own, as Gillon did for years. On the other hand, I know of one agent who was brilliant when part of a big agency, went solo, couldn't cope on his/her own, and has become an alcoholic barely capable of functioning professionally.) Of course, no advance doesn't mean nothing at all in it for an agent, because they'll get their 10 or 15% of royalties, and your royalties are very generous, as I recall. But of course they have to wait as you do - no fat (or even thin) cheque at the beginning! But your Macmillan book will be quite something to be able to approach an agent with - I imagine you've thought of that.

The option clause looks to my untutored eye like something that they've written to leave themselves a get out. I suppose you can always offer them something dreadful out of your bottom drawer, and when they turn it down, waltz off to another publisher with your actual next novel!
Emma

Hi Roger, and congratulations on your publication deal.
I note you say you have an agent, but you also state that the contract with MNW gives MNW subsidiary rights for which they will share any fees 50-50 with you. My understanding is that where you have an agent, you would normally retain subsidiary rights and the agent will sell them on your behalf, and they normally only take between 15-25% for selling any rights overseas. It therefore appears to me that you are being overcharged by MNW by allowing them to sell those rights. Have you queried this? And what does anyone else on the form think?

I think it's the standard contract for MNW and can't be altered in any way. It's also standard for any author getting a publisher without an agent; and Roger did sign up for the deal without the knowledge of his agent. As far as I can tell, nothing can be done about it. I really don't see, though, why the agent should be getting a cut at all, as he did not negotiate the deal. But perhaps Roger can clarify further.

Hi everybody. My agent certainly doesn't feel like he's entitled to anything out of it. I did submit the book without his knowledge but came clean once things started moving. He checked the contract over for me and advised me to sign.

The way I think about this is, the royalties on an unpublished book are zero. The subsidiary rights on an unpublished book are zero. I can't take the book to the Frankfurt Book Fair on my own. They have a big and powerful rights department and it seems like they are making a serious effort to sell it. If they manage to do so, they will be entitled to something. The fifty-fifty cut may seem a little steep, but again, it is (potentially) fifty percent of something, rather than eighty percent of nothing. If you follow my drift.

I dunno. I wrote down a long list of negatives about the deal. I wrote down a very short list of positives. In fact, there was only one real positive - 'I get my book published in 2006'. The nature of the book is that the sooner it is published the better - there's a certain element of topicality, maybe. A lot of time, with conventional deals, there's quite a long time to wait before your book comes out. The speed they wanted to do it was a big draw.

So the deal's far from perfect, but I could have waited forever for the perfect deal. I know from experience you can come very close and it can eat up years coming close lots of times.

Hope this help. And while I'm at it I'll plug my plog again http://rogersplog.blogspot.com

Shameless I know. But it does give some background to the whole thing for those who are interested.

Well, Roger, you are our guinea-pig! Watching you closely and wishing you the best!

I was dead chuffed this morning to get an email from Michael Allen, aka the grumpy old bookman. He's put a bit about my blog on his website today!

http://grumpyoldbookman.blogspot.com

I hope that's the correct address. Done it from memory. He writes a good blog and the guardian have it down as one of the top ten literary blogs, so if you haven't discovered it yet, take a look.

Roger.

Very good blog for you to get plugged at.

The reason for my consternation is that my first book is being published in the US. I want my second one published here as it is a very 'English' book'.

JB

congrats on the deal, roger - i have had trouble viewing your plog though; blogger just comes back with a 'url not found' message (even following the link from grumpy old bookman). you might want to check on this.

the tim clare thing is interesting - i really enjoyed the article. you have to agree it was a well-written rant, even if you don't agree with what he thinks!

once your blog is back up, i shall follow it with interest.

s

Thanks Steven, and congratulations on your deal with Anderson. I have a seven year old daughter so I shall look out for your book for her when it comes out. How long is it? Is it a picture book? Or what my kids call a 'chapter book'.

I took the blog down. I've got to really think a bit more carefully about what I put in it. The response to it was pretty good and it even got mentioned in The Times on Saturday, I believe. So perhaps I was wrong to take it down. But the problem with blogging is almost that it's too easy. You can write something and publish it and then it's out there. I may resurrect it but I need to do so when I can be sure I can put the time into it to make it worthwhile - both for me and anyone who's reading it.