Chaps
Those of you who know me, will know that I submitted my erotic novel to a publisher in the summer. Rather excitingly, I received a positive response, and the publisher has accepted the work for publication. However, there are 'considerations'.

They are not offering me a standard non-contributory contract, but are suggesting a 'joint publishing agreement'whereby they do the normal editorial work, printing, promotion and marketing for 'a financial commitment towards the initial costs'. Now, this made me twitchy, but they seem to be saying that this is not an unusual approach these days. I am awaiting further info from them on contractual arrangements (which would include 'an enhanced scale of royalty payments' to find out what they're looking for from me.

What I'd like to know is if anyone else has expereince of this type of arrangement and could give me some advice as to whether this is a complete gimmick or a viable alternative method of getting my work in print. Any constructive response appreciated!

cheers
tanya........

I'm sorry Tanya
I don't know anything about publication, just wanted to say Good Luck-hope it all works out well.
Jo

Tanya, I'll WW mail you.

So let me get this straight. You've written the piece, and now you're going to pay towards getting it published, and the publishers are doing.... what exactly?

Next they'll be asking you to attend their print room and keep your finger held down on the repeat copy button or something.

Stephanie,
I must admit, I'd feel a little bit concerned about this. Neverthelss, the more experienced writers' may be able to give you a more considered opinion. Of course, I do suppose that once you've been published, doors will be easier to open for other projects.

All in all though, congrats and best wishes with this. Good to hear of succes in this community, albeit one with a little qualification.

I'd be interested to hear what the considered cenus of opinion says on this one.

Darryl

I think you need expert advice for this one. It sounds like a potential minefield to me.
Try the Society of Authors. (www.societyofauthors.org). I think they have a list of solicitors who specialise in publishing contracts and can go through it with you.
Can you tell us who the publisher is, or do you have to keep that under wraps.? Maybe someone on this site has experience of them.
Good luck,
Dee.

Tanya,

I'm sure you're aware that the basic rule is that a writer should never pay to have his or her book published. A publisher takes on a book because they believe they can make money from it, or at least they will make money from the author eventually.

There are a few respectable POD/ebook/cd rom publishers who do not give advances but don't charge the author for publishing. There is also a publisher (Solidus) who offers to re-publish out-of-print books in POD, providing the author has regained the rights - the author pays for the conversion to POD, which is fair enough for a book that a main stream publisher has decided is no longer profitable (rightly or wrongly).

In main stream publishing, you should be wary of paying to have a new book published. However, as far as I can tell the Book Guild is a respected publisher that does ask writers to contribute. Their website - www.bookguild.co.uk - is well worth checking out, since it is very up-front about why it charges and what you pay for. It also has a code of conduct, so you could perhaps compare this with your publisher.

But I think you should be wary of a publisher who says this is not an unusual approach these days - it's not unusual for vanity publishers, but is definitely unusual for proper publishers.

Regards,


Terry


<Added>

I've just seen Dee's comments about the Society of Authors. It's very true that they will help with contracts - they gave me excellent advice on two contracts. However, you have to be a member to get advice and that means, I think, either having at least one book published or having a contract for one. If your contract allows you to join the Society, I'd greatly recommend it - well worth the annual fee.

Accoring to their entry in WAYB, you can apply for membership of The Society of Authors if you have a work published or accepted for publication so I think Tanya would qualify.
Dee.

Hi Tanya, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I would regard this offer with great suspicion. Do follow Dee's advice about the Society of Authors. I think they will look at a contract for you, even before you join, and they will tell you very clearly if they regard these people as vanity publishers or not. I have not heard of this method of publishing except as a vanity publisher's ploy. My suggestion is that unless these people are the respectable ones mentioned by Terry OR you are able to get in touch with some other authors (not stooges) published by these same people and who can vouch for them, I'd hang on for something safer, or self-publish. I frankly don't believe they will do anything other than page setting, printing and obtaining the ISBN number and charge you the cost. Editing, marketing and promoting will be pie in the sky. I feel rotten saying this but the demarkation lines in this area seem to be very important and with long term consequences if you get it wrong. I really hope I am wrong in my assessment, just proceed very carefully and the best of luck. Cheers, Hilary

Thanks to all of you for your prompt comments, especially to Nell for sharing her own experiences with me.

I have to say that I'm feeling pretty dejected about the whole thing, and this is after being thrilled on Friday when I first received the letter. Ah well, champagne probably has to go back on ice...

Consensus seems to be that this sort of publishing, known as 'subsidy publishing' is something to be avoided. A number of useful websites advise on vanity/subsidy publishers (Science Fiction Writers of America is one) and all recommend extreme caution. I am going to ask for sight of the propsed contract, just to find out what they are offering, and if I can get free advice from the Society of Authors, then I will, and I'll report back.

Thanks for your honesty, support and encoragement.
tanya......

A comprehensive list of the names of all known Vanity Publishers would be quite useful - perhaps we should compile one collectively?

The problem is that many pass themselves off as genuine orthodox publishers in their choice of names, in their advertising and in initial approaches - some have even tried to do that on this site too - and this leads to a a great deal of waste of time, money, and effort on the part of us authors.

There is a discussion forum on Vanity publishing topic elsewhere on the site.

Good luck Steph!

Andrew )

Hi Steph, tell us what happens, and we've still got the slot 'Your Experience' to the left, in the 'yellow box' section, if you fancied doing a piece on your publisher. Good luck, of course, and have you sent it out elsewhere?

Hi Tanya.
First of all, congratulations! Whatever happens with this one, at least you got a positive response!

I have no experience with this issue myself, but we talked about it at university last week. Our tutors unanimously agreed that a publisher should NEVER ask an author to pay anything towards publication of their work. And rest assured, these people know about this stuff, as they are all published authors with many years' experience.

I'd suggest looking at other publishers who will be prepared to take on all the expenses themselves and give you the kind of deal I'm sure you deserve. Otherwise, perhaps you should think about getting an agent... I know they cut into your profit, but at least you'll know that they'll be getting you the best publishing deal possible.

Good luck!

Daphne

Terry,

Interested to see your comment about www.bookguild.co.uk.

I don't know much about this outfit, but I submitted a preliminary synopsis to them a couple of days ago, and their managing director replied today, urging me to send in a complete MS for consideration - as well as my postal address, so they could send me 'a selection of reviews we have obtained in the national press and main media'.

Looking at their website, they say they offer 4 options: conventional publishing, 'author-funded publishing', production only (basic self-publishing I'd guess) and charity-based work. The short outline I was sent stated I would be responsible for the costs of producing a first edition.

I'm 99.9% sure I shouldn't touch this with six bargepoles tied end to end, yet I'm intrigued by the notion of 'respectability' the company seems to have.

Does anyone else know more about this company, or how they operate?

Thanks,
Chas.

Stephanie, I'd second everything that's been said, though I know how bitterly disappointing it is after the excitement. If you've been offered a contract you can join the Soc. of A, and if you enclose your contract with the application they'll turn it round in a couple of days.

But I have to say that I, too, wouldn't touch it with a bargepole; if they think they'll make money from selling your novel (which is the only reason publishers exist), why do they want a contribution from you? If they won't make money from selling it, why are they offering you this contract?

No one's mentioned the Preditors and Editors site yet, but it's a WW favourite as a great place to check out anyone - legit and questionable, so a look there might help you decide what you think of this offer. Googling will pick it up.

Emma