Hi,

I'm new here, though have popped in and and out for the odd lurk from time to time.

I'n interested in advice, suggestions, thoughts, lively debate etc on what to do about my second book - I'm in the odd position of having found a publisher fairly easily for my first book, if they are representative of the industry I'd rather self publish next time around. I strongly believe (apart from the distribution) there is not a single part of the process that I could not have handled better myself or paid a freelancer to do better.

I have had some vey encouraging feedback from readers of my first book which has given me the belief that there is a market for my style etc so I am really very tempted to bypass the entire industry and self publish my travelogue on Iceland. Most people I mention this think I'm mad since it is such a struggle to get an agent/publisher etc etc in the first place - I do have an agent who is a really big hitter, and she has been really helpful but sometimes I get the feeling that as I am small fry I'm at the bottom of her "to do" pile. Obviously I have not discussed this with her yet as I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, advice, suggestions?

Thanks,

Clement

Hello there, Clement. I think in the end you have to make the choice yourself - but might it be worth asking your agent to consider a different publisher? Or looking for another agent perhaps?

I think the days are certainly coming when authors will feel they're better off and more in control of the process if they self-publish for some books and commercially publish for others - assuming they have the choice! There's a respectable tradition for both ways to market.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

LoL

A
xxx

Hi,

The different publisher decision has been made! Have already told the publishers of the first book that my next one would cost them 7 figures, which they correctly interpreted as a rejection. It is simply not worth the effort of writing it to then watch somebody make such a mess of the whole procedure. I'd rather go and work in a bank and write nothing!

Clement

I've had the same problem with agents, hit and miss all of the time. In the end, on recommendation from an ex editor of the BBC who I know, he suggested appraoching PA. I did and got offered a contract. There are no catches and if you like, I can e-mail you a copy of a contract with them.

Steve

According to the www.1copyeditor.com , The author is always too close to his or her work ("baby") to be objective; it's almost impossible for the author to see the gaps, redundancies, and distractions that are instantly apparent to the reader. Additionally, the author represents his or her subject and interests. The editor represents the reader. The editor is responsible for satisfying the author's audience. Thus, the editor always puts the reader first...and (sorry!) the author's feelings second. Authors who opt not to have their manuscripts edited risk alienating their audience.

From:

http://www.1copyeditor.com

There's quite a bit of truth in that quote, but it isn't the whole story. There is a continuing myth about book writing (novels in particular) which is that the writer locks himself in his cell for a year or so to write the book, then submits it to a publisher who puts it on the shelves, pretty much as it was written and then everyone buys it and it's a big success. Of course, this does occasionally happen, although usually then more by accident. But most people might be surprised at just how much editorial input goes into a lot of novels, sometimes to the point where it should really be labelled as co-authored. The problem today is that publishers are increasingly cutting editorial costs. Which means that publishers and agents are more and more looking for manuscripts that are already well edited, which in effect means turning to authors they know and can work easily with. Yet the myth continues, and I believe part of the reason it does so is that publishers are not going to admit they don't really like to spend money on editing these days. After all, their claim to the moral publishing high ground is based on their treatment of a book being more professional than, say, a POD internet publisher.

All this puts the new writer in a difficult position. He's still getting fed the overnight success myth – the media love stories of poor single mothers writing a novel in cafes, then some publisher giving it a chance and suddenly she's making millions. And publishers and agents aren't really telling him the truth about what he needs to do to really stand a chance of getting published. One or two publishers do now state on their websites that they're not accepting unsolicited material, and that writers should send work to the likes of Cornerstones or the Literary Consultancy, but they don't really say why.

Also, and perhaps most crucially, the myth tends to develop the attitude that published writers especially don't need help. But when you think about it, this is a bonkers notion. Any craft you take seriously is going to be a life-long development. And so it is that many published authors use independent editors and/or writer colleagues to help them with their works in progress.

It's an oddity of book publishing, perhaps, that complete amateurs can send work direct to professional publishers or agents, usually full of expectation that it's suitable. I see lots of new manuscripts and it's remarkable how many of them – and we're talking months or years of a person's life to produce – lack even the most basic skills, e.g. no plot, characters who add nothing to the story, no emotional content whatsoever. Much of this could be put right with good editorial input at an early stage.

Terry

Terry

I agree with your statement. It also seems to be hitting the right desk , at the right time, with the right person. Kinda like shooting in the dark and hoping to hit the target; that's even with a fully edited novel.

Terry, you said

'It's an oddity of book publishing, perhaps, that complete amateurs can send work direct to professional publishers or agents, usually full of expectation that it's suitable. I see lots of new manuscripts and it's remarkable how many of them – and we're talking months or years of a person's life to produce – lack even the most basic skills, e.g. no plot, characters who add nothing to the story, no emotional content whatsoever. Much of this could be put right with good editorial input at an early stage'

and I couldn't agree more. It's a very rare artist or architect who hasn't done at least 4 years of art school. Photographers learn by assisting for years, filmmakers ditto. Composers usually go to college and then study one-to-one with a senior composer. I do wonder what makes so many people think they can write to a professional standard that publishers will accept without professional input, let alone some kind of training?

Emma

Emma,

I do wonder what makes so many people think they can write to a professional standard

This is the problem, isn’t it? So many people don’t view writing as a profession. They think that, because they have a computer, they can churn out reams of garbage and hey presto! It’s a book. Their family and friends will tell them it’s wonderful because they don’t want to hurt their feelings and they’re too lost in their own fantasy to see how awful it really is.

Only a serious, dedicated writer can understand the long-term investment and the sheer bloody hard work it takes to reach a professional level.

Dee

My daughter likes doing drawings for competitions, and she'll work hard at it, and then sit back and say, 'I'm really proud of that. I think it's going to win', and I never know what to say. I usually point out that Blue Peter will have 20,000 entries or whatever, and as she has a big talent for maths and none at all for drawing she sort of gets the point, and isn't TOO disappointed when she doesn't win - just a bit disappointed. I'm hoping that over the years, without anyone brutally saying her work lacks any talent, she'll gently realise it, and concentrate on writing stories, playing the piano and doing complicated maths with remarkable intuitive flair. But my schoolmaster grandfather used to say, 'if a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing badly' i.e., you learn almost as much by trying hard at something when the result is not good, as you do when the result is good.

The point of all this this touching reminiscence is that creativity at any level is a good human thing, and it's really hard to know when to let harsh reality bite about how much work a writer has to do, and how difficult it is even after that. And yet it must bite sometime, or the string of rejections is really soul-destroying, and proper writers get lost in the slush pile. It's true that there are some terrible writers who have no idea how terrible they are, and of them, only Jeffrey Archer gets published. But I think a good many - including some on this site - have a small talent and have something worth communicating to people. I think I've said it before on WW that the trouble with books is that there aren't enough non-commercial ways to do that. My singer sister can borrow a friendly church and get all of us to bring friends to her recital. If I had become a photographer (I nearly did) I could persuade my local wine bar or library to hold an exhibition. But how do I get 30 or 40 people to read my novel? Except on WW, of course, but online doesn't suit everybody.

Enough! I've got revisions to do

Emma

Steve,
you say there are no catches with PA but there are many disgruntled PA authors; check the Editors and preditors website and Writer Beware. Also, check out the following article:

http://www.steelypips.org/miscellany/publishamerica.html

I am fully aware and the result is balanced, at the end of the day it's a suck-and-see. I haven't got anything to lose, haven't parted with a penny, and it's a good learning curve. To date, they've been totally professional and I haven't got any beef with them. Sometimes, you just have to dip your toe in the pond and take a chance. The only major draw back is no advances, but at this time, I can live with that. Whatever the outcome, I'll update the folks in here. I wouldn't have gone with PA if they weren't recommended to me by an editor, so it's been done on an element of faith.

Well, good luck to you, Steve, and tell us your experience with them.

OK, good or crap I will get feedback.