And the Mozart - Beethoven analogy is also spot on . Like you, I'm a Beethoven; and like you, an ardent devotee of Dorothea Brande.

I've just ordered the Dorothea Brande book after so much discussion on this forum.

Gina.

Hi

Reading posts like this one give me great hope, I am enjoying writing my first novel, I know the story is great and that it should be snapped up, however I am ready for rejection as I dont expect that to happen overnight. I beleive in self-belief, if you beleive you can do it, you will, I also think it has lot to do with being in the right place at the right time, some people are there because they beleive they will be!

does that make sense?


Paula

Hi

Reading posts like this one give me great hope, I am enjoying writing my first novel, I know the story is great and that it should be snapped up, however I am ready for rejection as I dont expect that to happen overnight. I beleive in self-belief, if you beleive you can do it, you will, I also think it has lot to do with being in the right place at the right time, some people are there because they beleive they will be!

does that make sense?


Paula

Sharon and Emma,

My way of writing (and editing) is different from the one you both describe. When I write, I have to live the moment at that time and so it's only at that time that I can find the exact word which captures that. For me it's as though there is only one word in the English language that captures precisely the image that I'm trying to portray or the feeling I'm trying to convey and I have to find it then. It means that I am a slow writer. At best, I produce a page an hour.

When I come to the text later, I switch on my bull-shit detector and sniff around. I tinker with that first draft but very little. Any changes I make are superficial polishing ones, not significant ones. This is why the first draft has to work for me. If it doesn't then I have to scrap it and start again with a clean page.

I'm not saying that this is the right way to work, just that it's the only way I can. I know that this is not the usual method which is why I was delighted to read that interview with Larry McMurtry. I felt as though I had found another gay person in a heterosexual world.

Larry McMurtry said that he did a lot of rewriting on his first novel because that's what everyone told him he was supposed to be doing and, in his opinion, it's his worst novel. Later he gained in confidence in his own method and he claims that 'Lonesome Dove' which won the Pulitzer in 1986 was entirely a first draft with no rewriting whatsoever. I'm not claiming to be a Larry McMurtry or a Mozart or anyone else just that I can't imagine how I could write any other way.

Bull-Shit detector, fantasitc, i love that!

You have to go with what works - but whether that's what works for you or an audience ... sugar-me, I don't know.

Joe

Paula, yes, great phrase. I think it's Hemingway, being asked what the one thing a writer needs was and answering: 'a 100% reliable bullshit detector'. I suspect it's another word for editor. And I agree you need a powerful self-belief, but it has to be founded on actually being good at it, or at least, with the makings of being good. I've come across some people who had a powerful self-belief, and actually, sadly, were truly bad at what they did.

Ashlinn - The writer-editor distinction doesn't mean you necessarily do the whole story/book/poem before you switch. Some people switch after each sentence, or each word; that sounds like you, perhaps you're a Mozart. But I still think it's sometimes helpful to think of them as two different processes. Or maybe it's an extremely Zen question: your yin and yang are obviously much better integrated than mine. Or something.

Emma

I've just posted something about my editing style on the ‘rewrite fear’ thread, so I won’t repeat it here.

As for writer/editor, I tend to waver between the two. Some days I just want to spew-write, other days I spend hours editing one scene. That’s one of the joys of being a writer – we can choose what to do from moment to moment.

I think the difference between editor and b-s-d is that bull-shit can sometimes be an excellent piece of writing but the only function it serves is to stroke the ego of the author. It doesn’t necessarily add anything to the story.

Speaking of waiting - I'm waiting for a decision from a publisher at the moment. Living on adrenalin and fingernails. Checking emails with my eyes closed. Some days I am filled with self-belief. Other days I wonder why I think anyone would want to read what I write. I envy people who’s confidence is consistent but, as Emma says, without the talent or - probably more importantly - the willingness to develop, it amounts to nothing. I've seen writers on here in the past who could not accept even the slightest criticism of their work – and some of it was truly awful.

I was browsing through my first novel recently, wondering if it was worth a rewrite, and, while I still think it’s a good story and I love the characters, I could see why I couldn’t get it published. The quality of the writing doesn’t compare to the one my agent has now – which was hugely improved by the feedback from other WW members who weren’t afraid to point out the saggy bits.

Dee

Dee, very very good luck - it's not an easy time to live through!
Emma

Many thanks, Emma, and congratulations on your deal with Headline.

Dee

Emma - I've only just noticed your good news. Very well done and congratulations.

Joe

Dee and Joe, many thanks. Now for the editing...
Emma

Oh Emma , many congrats (I'm a newie). Having given my new re-written novel to my agent, I am now at that waiting stage. It's so good to see you have a deal. Did you have to go and see the publishers? If so, what was that like..?

Elle, many thanks. It was complicated, because Headline rang my agent before she'd heard from the others, trying to pre-empt an auction by offering a substantial 2-book deal, take-it-or-leave-it. Clare Alexander said normally I'd get to meet my potential editor so we could see if we got on, but there wasn't time. After it was agreed, I had a long conversation with my editor, and have met her for lunch, and done some major revisions. She wants to wait for me to go into Headline itself until the manuscript's agreed and scheduled, and they've got bound proofs and jacket designs and so on, so the book can be 'launched' in house then. I hadn't thought about it, but I suppose as an editor, the first people you have to sell to are marketing, sales, etc. etc. She's a novelist herself - won the John Llewelyn Rhys prize - and quite formidable, so I'm learning to stick to my guns about what I will and won't change. But what she likes about the book are the best aspects of it, if you see what I mean - she's absolutely not saying, 'It would all be fine if you'd just make him tall, dark and handsome, and bring in a space ship.' My agent's even more formidable, so at least I've got a big gun on my side too!

It's all very exciting, but alarmingly grown-up. Considering it's what I've been trying to make happen for the best part of 12 years, it's all a bit disconcerting!

Very, very good luck with your current submission. It's brilliant to have got that far. And thank you for reminding me - struggling with revisions - about how exciting it was when it first all happened.

Emma