no advance because the novel in the first instance hadn't been written before he put her under contract to him, it is just now written, and he is saying but it isn't written effectively.
But, sorry, Jan, I'd forgotten advances as an idea, so yes in theory money does pass from publisher to writer when the publisher has accepted the novel, but in this case he hasn't yet. I will ask her if there is mention of an advance sum in the contract.

I don't know about the outcome yet, he is prepared to publish it as it is but is predicting bad reviews. He's frightened of it because he hasn't come across anything like it before, so she has to teach him not to be frightened of it if she can.

He's suggesting also that the novel 'is barely publishable by our standards,' yet he's still going to publish it.

he is prepared to publish it as it is but is predicting bad reviews.

These two statements strike me as very odd. Given that it is difficult to get even good novels published, why would any publisher want to publish what he considers to be a bad one? Do you think he might be bluffing, and is just trying to reduce the amount that he will eventually have to pay the writer? Maybe it's just my dealer head talking, but it reminds me of someone sucking their teeth and saying, 'yeah, it's a good piece, and I would like to buy it, but it is chipped . . .'

He didn't give her any advance on signature? Surely that's very weird - even with an unwritten work you usually get a chunk on signature (typically 25 - 33%) - right?

I think she needs to get urgent advice on this contract and her rights. Is the publisher kosher?

Jan, that business of it's a bad novel that I'm going to publish is something I also found very strange and I have pointed it out to her. I've just looked at a copy of her contract. It's fairly simple and talks about an advance in clause 12, and there was no advance on signature, Flora, but there is no talk of an advance at clause 12. Clause 12, which I am going to look at again now, is about something else. I think she needs a lawyer. The publisher is a cruel man.

Clause 12 of her contract is a 'warranty' which talks about her being the rightful owner of the novel and that it has nothing obscene in it. Nothing to do with an advance. So, she's had no advance from him, the contract is faulty. I've asked her if she can get herself a lawyer. I think also that as a last resort she should ask him for the novel back and say that rather than him be noble and publish a barely publishable novel that will get poor reviews, he should return it to her and let her try her luck with a different publisher.

Perhaps 'rightful owner' meaning no-one else can claim authorship rather than she will get paid for her work. Oh dear, I have a horrible feeling she has signed away her right to any income from the publication of her novel. The contract may indeed be faulty but she did sign it. Not sure how that leaves the poor girl, especially as she is not in the same country as the publisher.

Well there may be royalties or something - I think a contract giving all rights to one party without any recompense wouldn't be legal (I'm no lawyer - but isn't "consideration" one of the cornerstones of contract law?)

I think she needs to work out what she wants to do (extract herself/proceed/whatever) and get advice accordingly. Are you sure she can't join the Society of Authors? There's nothing on their eligibility page to say you can't join, in fact there's specific instructions on the login page for what to do if you haven't got a UK postcode.

The SoA may be able to advise her on where to go before she commits herself further - as it stands, the publisher hasn't committed himself about whether the novel is or is not publishable. This may make a difference about whether she's free to go elsewhere.

She now is in the same country as the publisher, because he's just arrived over there... but what I mean is clause 12 is nothing to do with the advance. There will be royalties. She's unlikely to be able to join SoA as she's not an author yet, and there isn't time etc. I've asked if she can find a lawyer, but I think I've put her in a panic now and I'll have to talk her through her meeting with him which talks place in two hours.

You can join as an associate member if you've "received an offer to publish or broadcast a full-length work (without subsidy by the author)"

But yes, appreciate it's probably too late to get any useful advice before the meeting takes place.

Well - fingers crossed this is just bad communication rather than an intent to act dishonourably, and a face-to-face sorts matters out. Sometimes things can get very heated over email when in fact it's not as bad as it sounds.

Either way, good luck to your friend.

She's not a friend, she's a young woman of around 27 I should think. She'll be with him now. I'll find out in a couple of hours what happened in the meeting...

Sorry I just didn't know what to call her as I don't know her name.

Good luck to your... associate? Acquaintance? Sounds a bit cold somehow!

Good luck to her either way anyway.

I was her editor on the novel, hence my concern about all that has been said! And it's also curious that he hasn't spoken to me about it because, well, I wouldn't have swallowed what he said about it.

Well you'll never guess ... apparently after all that, when he met her, she said he was suddenly very happy with the novel and intends to put it in for the Orange Prize for Fiction next year. So unless tomorrow the novel is again trash, then the outcome seems to be more than good. How strange is that?

thank you all for talking to me about it.

How weird. Let's hope he's sincere. But face-to-face, in her country, he may be putting on a front. Once he's back in the UK the story might change again. Unpublishable to Orange Prize seems like a very unlikely change of heart. Sorry to cast doom and gloom but this has a very strange whiff to it. But good luck to her, certainly.