Thanks, Sue!
Now that I've done it I am really looking forward to getting some feedback. If I've been acted a bit oversensitive I apologize, it's a bit of a nail-biting time for me as I just left a perfectly good publisher and my last agent told me my work wouldn't be "place-able" anywhere else. So I may be acting a bit nervous of late.
I will also read the work of others but I am not very good at critiquing - I tend to read more with my heart than with my head, and even if I don't like something, it;s hard for me to put into words WHY. Let's see how this develops.

I think reading with your heart and saying how you felt is a great way of critiquing. After all we write with a view to someone picking the book up and reading it for enjoyment. To get a positive response - or not - is immensely useful to a writer who is keen to get things right.

S
x

OK, I just became a paying member. If I starve to death as a result I will blame this site and you people.

Terry, Thanks for your feedback. I will certainly incorporate it into the next draft.

Terry, if you critique my piece, I promise to become a full member straightaway.
ashlinn

Ashlinn, tell you what - you become a full member and I'll critique your piece right away.

Regards, Terry

Ashlinn, thanks for your comments. You've given me lots of food for though - it's good to see how some things which are clear to me are unclear to someone reading it for the first time. I'll surely clarify it all in my next revision! (Will it EVER end???)
I'll read your work over the weekend and post my comments.

Terry,

As you may notice, I have signed on for full membership but not as a result of your last posting (by the way, I release you from any obligation to critique my work.) While I was browsing on the site I found a thread called Stopping the Freeloaders and it explained a lot to me.

I had been very surprised when I joined in good faith and posted what I considered a civil question to be greeted with a sharp rebuff. I wondered what I had done wrong. So I did what you asked and uploaded a piece of my writing. I also read and gave a considered opinion of another member's work. But obviously that was not enough. I didn't realise that trial members would be treated this way. I took the trial membership to get a taste for the site before paying up and I hid my profile only because the fine print on the signing-up page seemed to recommend it.(Try reading it; it talks about avoiding spam and search engines) My mistake.

If you are having such serious problems with trial members, I have a suggestion. Why don't you get trial members to pay up-front but only debit their accounts or cash their cheques at the end of a one month period. You could automatically send them out a short questionnaire at the end of the month asking them if they want to proceed and only then effect payment. It would also give you an inkling into why trial members don't join up fully afterwards.
Certainly I would prefer that to this trial of intentions.

I'm not entirely happy with the circumstances of my joining - how about applying the innocent until proven guilty principle? - but hopefully it'll get better from now on.

Ashlinn

Ashlinn, where is that thread? I did a search but all I came up with was "gripe gripe gripe," which also explained a lot!

<Added>

OK, I found it under "free-loading".

Dear All:
I need some help on using the site. I keep hearing about groups one should join and when I looked for groups I saw several, fiction 1,2,3 etc. How does one know which group to join? What is the function of these groups?

Ashlinn,

Good that you've joined; I'm sure you'll get a lot out of the site. I've already apologised for the 'sharp rebuff' but ought to say that I wasn't acting in any official capacity where the site's concerned, and also not particularly in relation to trial members. Some long term and very helpful members here have been taken for something of a ride by trial members (which I can confirm – there have been some very unpleasant incidents in this respect) and have as a result decided not to critique work by anyone until they become a full member. This I understand and tend to follow the same principle myself.

I didn't know there were warnings about hiding one's profile on the site. When I joined, I just put my details on without thinking about it. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have used my actual name as my user name, since this means anyone who googles me will find me on this site, but I guess it's too late now.

Your suggestion about trial payment sounds good but you should probably direct it to David Bruce, since he's the site manager. I'm pretty dense about website dynamics. I belong to a fee-paying US site mostly for narrative journalists. On there, you can't access the site until you've paid a subscription – you can read the webpage and see some sample postings from which you make up your mind. However, that's a site for professionals who will probably know by word of mouth that it's a good site to join. WW is aimed much more generally so I guess you need to let people experience more of it before they commit.

For myself, I sometimes forget that this is a site where a lot of people look for something other than honest, professionally-orientated advice. By contrast, the journalists' site I mentioned above is matter-of-fact, direct, unsentimental and, particularly where ethics are concerned, extremely challenging. Here, perhaps understandably, a lot of people are seeking confirmation that their writing has value. The problem is, not everyone is honest about what feed-back they're actually looking for. Most press the 'Go on – I can take it!' button but this often turns out to be not the case.

Anyway, enjoy your time here, which I'm sure you will.

Terry

Terry,
Thanks for the welcome. I am very glad to be a member of this site and I hope I can contribute as well as gain. I live in France and so am somewhat starved of exposure to English - even literature in English (Long live Amazon!)
I have read a couple of your critiques of other people's work and I like your style. It's fairly hard-hitting but it's perceptive and worth having.
Aruna raised the issue of groups and I would like to reiterate her question. What are the differences between the various groups?
I would be interested in joining a fiction group dealing with adult novels and/or short stories. I would have a preference for general fiction (I don't read fantasy/ sci fi/ horror at all so I don't think my opinion would be worth a lot in these areas.) Has anyone got any room in a group for me?

Ashlinn

<Added>

By the way, I changed my profile so that it's now visible.

Ashlinn,

It's a difficult question to answer, about which group you should join. They appear to vary a lot, both in terms of what's posted and how posts are responded to. Also, some site experts are much more active than others - which has been discussed in the past. However, site experts don't get paid here so you have to allow for a degree of inconsistency across them. My group - Young Adults - as some very keen and able writers in it, yet we've been somewhat quiet lately in terms of postings. I have an unwritten rule that I'll critique at least the first posting by a new member to the YA group, and I usually do further ones too. I didn't comment on Sue H's last posting because it's a chapter from her book which I've been work with her on separately, as editor. If no one else in the group has any objections, I'd be happy for you to join it, even if your work isn't strictly YA.

The advantages of working in a group are that people get to know each others' work and reciprocate critiques - which can be very useful if someone is posting parts of a novel over a period of months, say. Also, at least where the YA Adult group is concerned, people form friendships and/or working relationships which extend into sharing experience and opportunities. For example, three of us from the YA group are going to the Society of Author's Children's Writers' conference in September. This means you aren't on your own and that we can make use of each others' contacts.

Terry

P.S. (Ashlinn, ignore this PS; it'll confuse you!) This reminds me - there still seems to be a problem with Young Adult and 'Teenage' postings. Sue's story has appeared under 'Teenage', which isn't a group, and not on the YA groups as I suspect she intended. Sue - can you have a word with David about this?

Ashlinn and Terry, just wanted to say thanks again for the great feedback. I've already revised the chapter and, Ashlinn, I you gave me an idea for a whole new sub-plot (answering one of the questions you posed) which i think could be just the missing link I've been trying to grasp but couldn't! So I'm doing a lot more writing to fill in those missing pieces; it ties up some loose threads very nicely!
I'll be reading your piece tomorrow, Ashlinn, and leaving feedback, today I'm cleaning the house! And I lok forward to reading Terry and others as well.