Hello everyone, I'm a new (trial) member. I can't find any reference to submitting a full ms to more than one agent simultaneously. Can anyone help? All opinions/advice welcome. I sent out first 3 chapters + synopsis of my novel to 10 agents. My problem is that 3 of them have asked for the full ms (although one said that he was prepared to look at the full thing but he warned me that it would only have an 'outside chance'. Of the others, one asked me to confirm that they are the only ones considering it and the other one asked me to clarify who I had sent it to so far. What should I do? I don't want to lose a chance of the second if the first refuses and also an agent might be less interested if they know that another one has refused already. Should I send it to all of them and take the chance or be honest?
ashlinn

Choose the one you like/want the most, and send it to him/her, and only if that one rejects send it to the next. Agents hate multiple submissions of full manuscripts because remember, they have many more to read and they only get paid if they can sell it - and they only can sell it if they're the only agent.
I know it takes longer this way and you must be impetient to get results but it's only fair, I think.
Good luck!

<Added>

Don't worry about sending it to the next agent if one refuses. Everyone knows that liking a novel is a very personal thing, and being refused just means that THAT particular agent didn't think he/she could sell it. The next might.

Aruna,
Thank you for your advice. I have been away for the weekend and didn't get the chance to reply before. I see from your other messages that you are an established, published writer. I feel like a real novice at this process. I'm glad that I didn't know much about it when I started writing as I'm not sure I would have persevered.
Anyway, the agents who have expressed interest in receiving the full ms appear to be smallish reputable agents and I have no idea which one I would prefer.
I already sent out a round of submissions a few months ago.I spoke to one agent on the phone who was somewhat interested in getting the full ms but we didn't get on and we ended up agreeing that there was no point in me sending it to her. I sent the full ms to another agent who ended up rejecting it but was very nice about it and gave me lots of helpful and spot-on feedback. I did a rewrite on the basis of their comments and I think I have improved it. I didn't send it back to them because they didn't ask me to and because I have moved it even further away from their specialised category. Ideally I would like to talk to these two new agents and see who I get on best with but I'm not sure how appropriate that would be. I don't want to appear to be iinterviewing/i them and I'm afraid of ruining my chances by creating the wrong impression as I did before.
Supposing I select one, should I tell the other that it is out with another agent? And what is a reasonable time to allow the chosen agent to review the ms before I contact the other one?
I am finding the process of submissing much tougher than the writing itself.
ashlinn

Ashlinn,

This subject has come up many times on WW and there's lots of valuable advice in the forum archives. Just type something like 'multiple submissions' in the Search box and loads of stuff will come up.

The other thing that will help is to post some of your work on the site. There is a lot of experience on WW, and it's generally offered freely and in good spirit. But what you ask is very general. You say you don't know much about the process; well one of the ways to find out more is to mix in with fellow writers, which means chucking in some of your work for comment and you commenting on others'. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll make valuable contacts, some of which will lead you towards the kinds of agents and publishers who would be most suited to your work.

Good luck.


Terry

ashlinn,

you would be very lucky indeed if you could get to speak to two or three agents before your work has been accepted, in order to make a choice! I'm afraid that happens only in the most exceptional cases. It might happen for instance if you submitted to publishers first, and a publisher wanted your work and was going to give you a nice advance... then I guess you could take your pick among agents!
I also find it frustrating that at the moment they are all just names to me. I wish I knew more about each one and what they really like. I am thinking of becoming a ful member here because of what infortamtion may be in the agents directory, but I wish I could have a peek first!
If you don't have a specific choice then just send it to one at random, and then wait and see.
I wish you the best of luck!

Sometimes I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall ... Look, neither of you has put any work on this site so what's the point in discussing how to get it published on this forum? Aruna - you give out advice about what agents want and then complain because you don't know anything about agents!

Submitting work is one thing, but these days it isn't really enough. You have to know people and know what they want. How do you do this? There are loads of ways but they all involve getting out and mixing it. For instance, go to workshops and talks given by editors/agents - AWC, for instance, or the SCBWI for which our own Sue Hyams helps organise events. Mind you the SCBWI is for children's writers but we don't actually know what either of you writer because you haven't told us. Read the Bookseller, read agents' websites; Google specific editors and agents, find out what they're into. To say you're thinking of becoming a full member so you can see what's in the agents' directory is somewhat dismissive of everyone else on this site.

I know you'll find this harsh, but I'm tempted to say stop whinging about what isn't happening for you, and get stuck in to this site.

Terry

I'm sorry to have annoyed you, Terry! I didn't realise that putting work up on the site was a condition of posting here, or getting a reply. If that was the case i would never have come. I simply found what seemed like a friendly site where I might share what I do know about the business, and get replies to what I don't know.

Re putting work up for review by others: I have not beenhere more than a week. Practically the only people who have "spoken" to me are newcomers like myself. I'm just not the type who likes to have people looking at my work unless I know them well and trust them well; or if they are professionals.

I also have this superstition that nobody, nobody should see my work until it is quite finished. It's as if it has to stay a secret till it's finished - might sound silly but that's just me.

Once the work is done, and I'm at the revising stage, it's possible, and last night I was contemplating it seriously, after reading a critique you did on somebody else's work. Believe me, that is a HUGE step for me! I've never done it before and banging me over the head with "you must put up your work in order to get an answer" certainly makes me less likely to do so.

I am not being dismissive of you all. Obviously you all know each other well; but I can't imagine going to a site full of strangers and then right away putting up my work for review. Don't you think that people need time to get to know older members first, to feel safe and accepted, before they volunteer their work?
That's how I feel, anyway. I would never, ever go to a discussion board and say, here's my work, please look at it, on the first day or in the first week, before metting themembers and making "friends" with them first. I might do it after a month, once I know everyone well. To get to know anyone well you need to interaract. But, seems like here it's the other way around? First we have to post our work, and then you'll talk to us?

I do have some experience in publishing which I am happy to share; but as I never had to find an agent from scratch before, I was hoping for some feedback.

I love the idea of interracting with other writers, especially writers as knowledgable as many of you seem to be. I strated off with a trial membership, to see what it's like, what you are like. If I felt comfortable I would love to put up my work. I am at th epolishing off stage and I could do with some reviews. But I don't know you. Just as I wouldn't give my baby to strangers to take care of, i wouldn't put up my work until I knew the people who wil be reading it, until I felt som personal respinse and acceptance. I feel even less of that now.

I do know quite a bit about how agents work as I've had one, a very reputable one, for the last 5 years or so, and worked intensely with her. But I don't know any others, and I don't know who is suited to me. That's not whining, it's just a statement of fact.

I can't go to any talks or workshops as I'm a single mother and also have a dog and can't get away for long, and also I don't have the money it.

Aruna,

Sorry if I came across rather blunt. However, I felt a little frustrated at having offered advice that was ignored. Of course it's not a 'condition' of this site to put up work, but if you want help – which you appear to do – you're more like to get it if we can see what kind of stuff you're writing. At the very least, it would be helpful to know what genre you (and ashlinn) are working in, i.e. because we may know agents/publishers who concentrate on that area.

This is, as you say, a friendly site. However, I'm sure you're aware that the publishing industry doesn't tend to put friendliness high on its order of priorities. What we all need – once we are serious enough to submit work – is advice that is accurate.

"I'm just not the type who likes to have people looking at my work unless I know them well and trust them well; or if they are professionals."

I have to say this is a somewhat limiting attitude, not to mention begging the question of why you joined this site. Are you saying that a condition of having your work published is that it's read only by people you know or trust?

"I also have this superstition that nobody, nobody should see my work until it is quite finished. It's as if it has to stay a secret till it's finished - might sound silly but that's just me."

Well, yes, if it's a superstition, it is silly. For God's sake, you're trying to write for public consumption. How on Earth are you going to get any kind of feed-back on whether or not it's working without trying it out on the public first, i.e. people on this site? Unless you're Phillip Pullman, the chances are your work can only benefit by getting as many people as you can to see it before it's finished, otherwise you could waste a lot of writing time. What, for instance, if the first chapter sets things off completely wrongly – wouldn't it be better to get feed-back on this before writing the rest of the book?

I really think you're missing the point in saying that you want to get to know everyone on this site before you submit work. For a start, that's impossible – you can't control who reads your work (other than restricting it to group-only eyes), and anyway why would you want to? You need feed-back from as many different types of people as possible. All you need to know about this site is that it's basically positive, and I'm sure you can find that out by simply reading a few critiques and forum threads. Really, we don't 'all know each other well' here; but most of us know enough about the site to trust putting up work. And it's silly to say that you have to post work before we'll talk to you – what do you think I'm doing right now? There is a certain sensitivity amongst full members to trial members hitting and running, so to speak – taking as much as they can out of the site before moving on when paying up time looms. I'm not saying that's your plan, just that it's happened in the past.

"Just as I wouldn't give my baby to strangers to take care of, i wouldn't put up my work until I knew the people who wil be reading it, until I felt som personal respinse and acceptance. I feel even less of that now."

Sorry, I don't understand this at all. Are you saying that we have to give you some kind of assurance, or send you our CVs, before you'll consider giving us the privilege of looking at your work? Seriously, if you equate your writing with having a baby, you are in serious trouble. If you get published, do you honestly think media critics, not to mention the book buying public, are going to treat your books as if they were your babies?

Believe me, I don't mean any of this in a harsh way; I'm actually trying to be helpful. But I really do feel you need to come off it a bit, get stuck in and enjoy yourself commenting on people's work and getting comments back on yours – we've all learned a tremendous amount by doing this.

Terry


<Added>

Tell you what - to show this is a positive site, if you post some writing I promise I'll critique it.

Regards,


Terry

Thanks for your prompt reply.
And it seems that I came across as overly sensitive!
Really, I'm not that bad.
I do write for public consumption; I have been published; but at first I had had overcome an excrutiating shyness about having people read my books, even at the published stage... Now that IS silly, and I have overcome that pretty well.

The creative stage, I think, is different. I have an absolute need to keep things to myself during the first draft, and I believe that's correct; this is right-brain activity and it needs to come without anyone looking over my shoulder,

The revision stage, which is now, is different, and in fact i would be happy to get feedback.

I have every intention of joining properly and paying fees, just that things are absolutely tight right now and I wont't be seeing any money for what looks like mid June. At the moment I've been borrowing from all my friends! So I might have to let the trial run itself out and rejoin. I mean that. £35 is not a lot but at the moment it damn well is!

"Just as I wouldn't give my baby to strangers to take care of, i wouldn't put up my work until I knew the people who wil be reading it, until I felt som personal respinse and acceptance. I feel even less of that now."

Sorry, I don't understand this at all. Are you saying that we have to give you some kind of assurance, or send you our CVs, before you'll consider giving us the privilege of looking at your work? Seriously, if you equate your writing with having a baby, you are in serious trouble. If you get published, do you honestly think media critics, not to mention the book buying public, are going to treat your books as if they were your babies?

No. I don't expect the media to treat my books as my babies. I have been published. I have three novels out there in the public domain and I don't mind letting you know what they are or who I am; I have a very primitive website, http://www.sharonmaas.com.

But I have heard nightmare stories about author's groups where people read out their work and everyone pulls it to pieces. I've heard MANY such stories. So of course, on first coming here, my instinct is to initially proceed with caution, and see what you are like.

As I said, I have read one of YOUR critiques and I liked it - you are up front and don't mince words, and you have a good eye for detail. It's what I need, I'd like it with my own work, as I do want to get things right.

I am in fact very good at taking editorial advice. My first novel was first critiqued by a professional service (Hilary Johnson) and I did everything she said; she's good, and she got me an agent.

It just seemed to me a whole new ball game, putting an unpublished, unedited chapter up there for public review. Please be patient. I will do it. I promise!

Sharon

Sharon,

It's not so much coming across as overly sensitive, we just didn't know much about you. Thanks therefore for providing more information, and congratulations on having several books published. I had a quick look at your site to see you quote Dorothea Brande there. I think her book is probably the best 'How To' guide to writing there is. She doesn't bother with much technical advice, like how to submit a manuscript, but just concentrates on how to be able to sit in a chair and produce meaningful work.

I do understand your fear of critiquing groups. I joined and quickly left a couple of on-line groups before this one and was amazed at how vitriolic they could be. You'll find there are a lot of people on WW who've been here a long time, which is a good sign. There have been one or two 'flamers' (at least I think that's what they're called) in the past, but the site hosts dealt with them promptly. If anything, comments here tend to be perhaps too positive.

Look forward to seeing some of your writing – when it's out of short trousers, that is!
Terry

Well, to prove my point about the integrity of this site, I just received an email from David Bruce. He'd read my comments on this thread and thought they were rather harsh, especially on new members. I replied to say I agree. Therefore I'd like to apologise publicly to Sharon and to Ashlinn for what I see now was some mis-directed frustration. I don't think David will mind me making this public and I'm doing so to show that the site is indeed well looked after.

Terry

No need to apologize at all! Sometimes i need a bit of a shake to get past myself. Thanks! I've just prepared chapter one for uploading later on today... brace yourself! ;-)

<Added>

Hey!I did it! It's up!

OK I'd like to explain myself seeing as I started this. I made the posting and joined on Thursday last because I was faced with a situation where I wasn't sure of what to do and I thought that someone might be able to advice me on a point of submission etiquette. Terry, I did do a search and didn't find the answers to my questions - multiple submissions of opening chapters, yes, but not the full ms.- It is entirely possible that I haven't understood the technical workings of the site yet and so didn't manage to locate an answer that exists. If you would like to point me to an appropriate thread I would be delighted.
Secondly, I would be pleased to join as a full membership but I think it is quite normal to avail of a trial 1 month membership initally since that possibility is there.
Also I understand how Aruna might be hesitant to share her work before getting to know people. I feel the same way but for different reasons. I have no problem with exposing my writing but I am nervous about giving comments about other people's work. I tend to give the same kind of feedback that I would like to get - honest. Kind compliments are good for the soul but I don't find them as useful as constructive criticism for improving my writing. I was in one writing group (real) and participated in a writing website where a significant number of people just seemed to want to tell each other what wonderful writers they were and how powerful their pieces were. After a while I felt it was a waste of time.
I would very glad to participate fully in the Writewords web-site but my constraint is time not money. It's hard enough to carve out the time to write never mind communicate with others, beneficial as that may be.
Following your advice, I am now going to post the first chapter of my novel on this website and I welcome all comments. They will also help me to guage the tone you welcome. Don't worry, I am not a sponger, I am prepared to read, think about and comment on other people's work in return.
I hope the air has been cleared and I look forward to further discussions.
Ashlinn

OK, it's there. By the way, I very much like the feature that allows the writer to indicate the kind of comments they would like to get. It goes some way in getting over the problem I referred to in a previous posting.

I've just stumbled across this thread while trawling through the site. I'm glad you've both decided to post some work. The first time I did I was equally unsure and nervous about putting my work into the public domain! I remember the excitement though when I got my first response to it. I will look at both of your posts, although I'm no expert AT ALL. It may take a day or two to read everything because I'm in the middle of a big re-write at the moment and, as well as that, finding it hard to tear myself away from my new Stephen King On Writing book, and am about to take my daughter to her dance class!

Anyway, welcome to the site. I hope you both have a lot of fun here.

Sue
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