Hi

I’m sure this must have been asked loads of times before but how important is it to include the ‘cv’ that agents request?

I know it need only be a couple of lines but I really don’t feel I can even stretch to that! Is it better to write a few lines saying I have no worked published, no English degree…etc? or just put nothing and hope they don’t notice?

Would something like ‘ this is my first novel’ suffice or is it just better to not mention my lack of experience at all??

Would they assume lack of experience if I don't put anything or will this just annoy them?

Thanks

Livi

If you've got nothing to say, then say nothing. It's more annoying to agents to wade through meaningless 'fluff', than to have just a short line introducing yourself. There's no point in filling the space with negatives such as saying it's your first novel.
While an MA, competition wins and publication credits may make them sit up a little straighter as they read the submission, at the end of the day it's the quality of the writing in the sample chapters that'll sell the mss.

I agree with Naomi, but if you have done any work that is relevant to the novel you are submitting, then mention that. So if you have a story about time traveling brush sales men and you are either a time traveller or a brush salesman, then that would be worth mentioning.

Ben Yezir.

I'd like to offer more advice but i've seen so many howlers, and written similar ones myself, that if all you can say is 'I'm a 55yr old housewife' it'll look more professional than the vast majority of bios sitting in agents slush piles.

If you've got nothing to say, then say nothing.

I _disagree_ vehemently!

Not with the content - no point making stuff up as nobody will be fooled and it just leaves you wrong-footed in any subsequent conversation - but with the motivation it implies.

If you've got nothing to say in your writing CV, ask yourself; "why?"

After all, you're a writer, so you've written more than the one novel you want somebody to buy, and there is an Internet along with the entire world of terrestrial media so there is more than one market for things people might want to read.

Amongst the things you can try to get things onto your CV are:

1. Writing shorts for one of the gazillion short-fiction e-zines and magazines (like www.everydayfiction.com that is one of my favourites). See www.duotrope.com for potential markets...
2. Writing guest articles for one of the gazillion-and-four blogs.
3. Entering writing competitions.
4. Hosting or getting organised in writing events, groups, societies...
5. Getting _out_ there.

Not only will it give you something to say, but it will be fun and it will build your confidence in yourself and it will make your application more credible. Also, you will probably end up with much sharper writing as a result, especially if (as with Every Day Fiction) you get the benefit of reader's comments etc.

Just my tuppence,

G

Totally agree with Gauis. In the modern networked world to say nothing says a lot. And don't forget, an agent is planning to make money off your earnings: he doesn't pay you. So the more compliant and unconnected you appear to be, the better for him to mould you.

I agree with Giaus that if you have nothing to say then work on building a CV so that you do have something meaningful to put in your writer's bio.
However most writers don't want to be distracted by short stories and flash fiction because they're busy mastering the art of the novel. Others, admittedly, are far too impatient and rush to get their submissions out to agents before they're ready. In both cases, avoid the urge to fill the covering letter with useless fluff that in all likelihood will make one sound like a complete newbie, a fawning sycophant or a psychopath.

I think your last sentence goes without saying. And I could argue that part of the path to mastering the art of the novel is working on short/flash fiction. But the main point I'm making (and I think Gaius too) is that an agent, indeed an editor too, these days is unlikely to be attracted by an author who isn't in various ways making themselves more marketable. Which is a wide remit, of course, but boils down to the fact that even if their prose is brilliant, they probably need to show more interaction with the wider world of publishing/marketing/fanbase, etc. Which means, basically, doing more of that stuff while you're writing the novel.

I know it's easy to look at any single effort in these areas as not necessarily being directly useful to one's progress. But it's the secondary benefit of getting out and about in different ways that produces a kind of intelligence, connectedness, responsiveness and generally clued-inness that can tip the balance in your favour against, say, another author who's as talented but less willing to step out of the garret.

Terry

I think Gaius makes a good point, but the writer's cv is of maybe 1% importance, compared to the 99% importance of the actual writing.

If the novel is good enough they won't care if you're a recluse - if the novel is crap it won't matter if you're Stephen Fry's best friend on twitter.

So I agree that plumping up your CV can help, but don't lose sight of the face that it's the writing that actually matters, and most editors and agents won't really mind whether you've blogged, or written shorts, or any of that stuff.

The main thing about all the stuff that Gaius suggests, I reckon, is that it's likely to improve your writing. Giving yourself something to put on the bottom of the letter is just a bonus.

Flora, you just can't say the ratio's 99:1. If Steven King sent a story to Fantasy and Science Fiction it would get published even if it was crap, in which instance it would be his cover letter (plus name of course) that sold the story, not the quality of writing. And I know from reading a lot of SF/Fantasy short fiction that the same principle applies down (to a lesser extent of course) to less stellar writers but ones who have a 'name'.

In any case, I don't think anyone's saying the writing doesn't matter; of course it does. But these days, it's not the only thing that matters. And I disagree that 'most editors and agents won't really mind' if you've blogged or written shorts or 'any of that stuff'. For example, a recent survey of authors found that about 40% had sold short fiction before selling their first novel. Okay, you could argue that means 60% didn't. But the more 40%ers you give yourself, the more you improve your chances. The point is, such things can tip the balance. If, for instance, an editor liked your novel but felt it needed quite a bit of work, I'd guess she'd be more likely to take you on if you'd had say a dozen short stories published in reputable magazines - because it shows you have demonstrable skill and, most importantly, that you have worked successfully with editors.

Being specific, I'm on the fence that everydayfiction.com would be a good addition to your CV. They only pay 3 dollars a story and Duotrope records a 31% success rate with submissions. But it's a personal call.

Terry

Being specific, I'm on the fence that everydayfiction.com would be a good addition to your CV

On the contrary, it means they know they can get me cheap...

I think where I came in on this is that you can get experience to build a CV without either a) needing a pre-existing name or b) needing a pre-existing agent or c) needing an academic background in literature.

The freebie e-zines all provide that.

And I know from reading a lot of SF/Fantasy short fiction that the same principle applies down (to a lesser extent of course) to less stellar writers but ones who have a 'name'.

Freebie e-zines also provide the exposure you need to build a name in the first place.

Let's face it, until people are reading you, it doesn't matter how good your writing is - it's just so many words. By getting out there, especially somewhere that provides the side benefits of reader comments and reader voting, you are giving yourself the opportunity to build a readership in addition to developing your skills and demonstrating an ability to please at least one editor, somewhere in the world.

To extend the adage that writers write; published writers are read.
G

Ok, it's a fair cop, I am making up the 1/99 ratio.

And yes, we're not talking about established writers obviously - clearly Stephen King etc is an entirely different kettle of fish. But this thread is not about the CV of an established writer.

Truthfully, I don't think the fact that 40% of agented writers had previously sold short fiction tells us very much. All that says is that writers like writing - and some of them like writing shorts as well as novels. If we could say that you're four times as likely to get an agent IF you've sold short fiction then... still, so what? All that says is that if you're a good writer you can probably write shorts as well as novels.

But I'm not sure why I'm arguing about this because I think we're basically in agreement that a CV could possibly tip the balance, but the writing needs to be good in the first place.

Poor Livi has probably gone to pour herself a large glass of wine at this point

Gaius - it's a tricky one. Yes, you have to start somewhere, and it's good for one's confidence to make a sale of any kind. I just think you have to be careful never to aim lower with your actual writing. If you aim at the top - at pro/at least semi-pro levels - it is going to take longer to make a sale, it's true, but a) it will count for more when you do and b) your writing is working towards a better level. There is a guy who was in my group at Odyssey who has sold over 40 stories but none to pro level and very few to semi-pro. He's desperate to make a pro sale but then he didn't really listen to much of the feed-back at Odyssey; just kept pumping out stuff at the same, off-the-top-of-the-head level. I'm not sure he can raise his game now. I don't know if he lists all his sales in his cover letter but I can't help feel it would be counter-productive with a pro mag. Similarly, I suspect that most book editors will take more note of one sale to Analog than any number to below-semi-pro magazines.

Flora, those 40% weren't necessarily agented. The same poll showed that about 40% made their first sale direct to a publisher, but not necessarily the same 40%. I've been talking more about editors here than agents. Quite a few SF/Fantasy editors have said they read the short fiction magazines and will from time to time contact authors to ask if they have a novel they can see.

I agree, we're not really arguing and I think there's value in opening up these topics.

There may be a genre consideration here, too. If you write SF/Fantasy or Romance, any editor would want to see you know your way around your genre. And that would include being a member of the relevant association, short fiction sales if possible, etc.

Terry

No one has yet mentioned the value of non-writing experience on a CV. If you're writing a novel set in the world of finance and worked for a big bank, or like HB, were a family lawyer and have a heroine in the same profession, that matters. Equally if there's anything interesting you've done - ice climbing or solo sailing and similar sports are in your book - put it in. As well as proving your writing credentials, a CV can suggest newsworthy angles on you for marketing dept.

Thanks all. What a can of worms!

I must say that I don’t have much experience of non-novel as I’ve never had spare time that I couldn’t spend on novel writing! Would be lovely if I did though, I can see how it would build up my experience.

I think it’s probably best to be selective about what you include. I assume that agents are more interested in indicators of skill/merit rather than enthusiasm. - skill being winning a reputable competition or published in a well known magazine, and enthusiasm being just blogs and stuff (which anyone can do, regardless of skill). I say this because a couple of the agents I’ve looked at say not to attach links to blogs and online work. This may well be because they don’t have the time to view them but surely also suggests that they are of little importance compared to the overall submission.

Livi