Hi, Has anyone used a professional editing and critique service before? I've been looking at an organisation called First Editing. I don't know if anyone's used them or any other editing service before, but I wondered if anyone had any recommendations.

I'm about to close out the second draft of my first novel and feel that I need some help getting into a good state and help with the synopsis and letters of enquiry. All at a reasonable price of course. First Editing quoted me £600 for a 95k word manuscript (which included editing, critique, suggested content rewrites up to 20% etc but not synopsis/letter assistance).

Any help/advice would be muchly appreciated.

Hi Lorraine,

You will find a wide range of opinions here. Certainly some of us have used these services. Some of us offer these services. There are those who will strongly advocate the benefits and those who were so badly treated they would never waste their money again. So it's hard to get an objective opinion. Mine is certainly biased.

I would say that it's a sound idea to check out the consultancy before using it, but you are already doing that. Perhaps find out exactly who the reader will be, or use a reader that you know and trust. Some people who run writing courses also offer this service and that allows you to get to know what they are like first, and have some idea of their taste.

I've no experience of First Editing. Sorry. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

and help with the synopsis and letters of enquiry

You are welcome to upload the synopsis in the Synopsis & Outline Group for help in bashing it into shape - and it's free. Or WWmail me.

If you are hoping to get a consultancy to write the synopsis and covering letters for you, I would advise against it. Agents can spot them a mile off, and it doesn't help you to spot plot holes that need fixing in the novel itself.



- NaomiM

I did have a very good report from Hilary Johnson agency which asked lots of pertinent questions about my ms - which I could then address to make a tighter and clearer story. But the report worked for me in the manner of questions rather than answers...ie: Why did he do that? Wouldn't she show more emotion here? How would you make her show more emotion by actions as much as words...etc.

I know other people have had less favourable experiences with the same agency. It is a very personal thing.

The cost was considerably less than the figures you have quoted. However, as Rainstop says, it really does depend on who is writing the report and whether they are really sympathetic to, and know about, your genre.

So, in my opinion, the first thing is to ascertain your genre and then ask people who write in the same vein who they might recommend - or not. After all, it's a lot of money to waste if you're not happy at the end.

I have heard excellent things about Writers' Workshop and then our own Emma Darwin also offers professional advice.

Naomi, Thanks for the offer. I may take you up on that. I still need to whip the book into shape though. I could do with a really good critique and sorting grammar/paragraphs out etc.

I've looked at a view websites offering professional editing and critique but some of them seem to go further than offering critique etc. If they deem your book marketable, they help to put you in touch with agents. Seems a bit suspect to me. I've heard the Literary Consultancy is one such organisation but I thought it was one of the more professional outfits. The same goes for Writers Workshop.

To be honest, I'm confused. I'm a first time author trying to have half a chance at reaching out to agents with my novel in the right way. I don't have what you would call a traditional writing background and am trying to find a service that will help me to polish my work and which doesn't involve me getting fleeced.

I'm hoping that someone out there will have a gem for me in the guise of a reasonably decent organisation who can help me.

Lorraine

If it helps. The genre of the book is a mix of the supernatural, action and romance.

and sorting grammar/paragraphs out etc

There is a big difference between the editorial critiques given by agencies such as Writers Workshop, Literary Consultancy, etc, which is an overview of the story, and Copy Editing, which sorts out grammar, syntax, mss format, etc.
Copy editing can be very expensive - I've seen quotes of £1500 for a full mss, and that would be on top of the £600-£700 for an editorial critique.
The problem with copy edits is if & when you are asked to do a rewrite of chapters or scenes, do you pay for the mss to be corrected again?

which included editing, critique, suggested content rewrites up to 20% etc but not synopsis/letter assistance

Lorraine, I may be off beam here, but are First Editing US-based? I ask because a) I can't find them on Google, and b) rewriting up to 20% sounds more like the US kind of editorial work, which is much more interventionist and actually re-writes stuff for you - sometimes called Book Doctoring. It's also much more expensive. £600 sounds like a lot for 95K for the kind of report that most UK agencies would be doing.

I would suggest that if you want to sell in the UK you us a UK agency, since they'll be thinking about the UK market in their report, any links they have will be with UK literary agents.

As everyone's said, you will find different opinions on here, (and like several WriteWorders, I do reports for Writers Workshop, and independently, so I guess I'm biassed.) and also different experiences of how good the reports are, from the magic fairy dust that got their novel into publishable shape, to a total, morale-sapping disaster. I would suggest that using a biggish agency makes it easier to go back to them if you feel that things have really gone awry.

You my find this, from my blog, helpful in deciding what you want and how to go about getting it, including the business of the relationship they may or may not have with literary agencies:

http://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/how-to-get-the-best-out-of-an-editorial-service.html

Emma

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You'll also hear one or two people on WW say that they think the whole system is wrong, in taking money to work on books which will never be publishable. Some agencies will look at your work and tell you if they think you shouldn't bother. Others reckon that they can always help you make a book better, if not publishable, wherever it's starting from. And it does seem to me that a good report will help you to learn about writing in general and your writing in particular, way beyond the confines of that book. I know several people who've had a report which basically made them realise that what they needed to do was lay that book to rest, and take everything they've learnt on with them to the next book. It's your call whether you'd think that money was well or ill spent...

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One option would be join a WW Group, and upload some to see what the members think. That would give you an idea of whether it's go to the stage where paid-for help would be sensible.

And Naomi's right, proper copy-editing for spelling/punctuation/paragraphing/continuity/fact-checking and all the hundred and one other things proper copy-editors look for is very expensive because it's incredibly slow and specialist work. Generally speaking it's not necessary, in the sense that long-term you need to learn to do those things for yourself, and the odd minor (and I do mean minor) slip isn't going to make the difference between whether your book is taken on or not.

Besides, having it all corrected isn't nearly as good a way of learning as letting WWers loose on your work and taking on board what they say about what and why needs changing.

Bottom line (as far as that's possible) is that most manuscript agencies will be happy to perform whatever service you ask for, within their pricing arrangements of course. So, I'm sure most of them would look at your synopsis/cover letter if you asked them to. But you have to bear in mind that they are primarily businesses who aim to make money out of (mostly) writers who are desperate to get published. Which would be okay perhaps, if they were always as diligent about the quality and ability of their readers to supply the services needed as they are to take payment for them.

In essence, you usually aren't able to control who writes a report on your novel or gives feed-back on your cover letter/synopsis. Quite likely, it will be someone who's had one or two books published, never worked as an editor, and who may well have never written a cover letter themselves - at least not one which needs to sell their work to a publisher. And, really, like everything else, one needs to train and practice at selling cover letters/queries before attempting to teach anyone else how to do them.

Another very important thing to bear in mind is that the vast majority of agency readers only receive about a third of the fee you pay (some even less). Which means two thirds of what you pay is going to the agency owner's profit and overheads.

One reason the agencies continue with (it seems) not too much resistance, especially to some of their more questionable claims, is that writers tend to be a little passive and even grateful in their attitude to whatever is thrown at them from what they see as the 'industry'. I'd advise asking lots of questions, finding out through word of mouth who does good work in this area, then negotiating to make sure you get what you need. Don't for example settle for the main rip-off (in my view) mechanism used by most of the agencies, which is to charge per thousand words for their reports.

Terry

As this is your first novel I would take advantage of everything WriteWords has to offer you first, before forking out money to outside agencies. First novels are steep learning curves about the craft of writing, and, when you go through the submission stage, about the business of publishing. Usually it's one's subsequent novels that benefit from this experience.

You'll also hear one or two people on WW say that they think the whole system is wrong, in taking money to work on books which will never be publishable. Some agencies will look at your work and tell you if they think you shouldn't bother

.

Emma, I'm not saying the whole system is wrong, but yes, I do think it's wrong to take money for work on a book that you believe will never be publishable. The only exception might be if the agency has told the writer up-front that their view is it will never be publishable but the writer for whatever reason still wants them to work on it anyway; which is, let's face it, rather unlikely.

I'd like to think it's true that some agencies will not take money from writers on the grounds that a particular book is not worth the effort. But I never heard of this happening with the big agency I used to work for, and haven't heard of any others that have a good track record in this respect either. I also never saw an interim, less expensive alternative service offered: at the agency I was with, if a writer asked for a full report (charged per thousand words), that's what they got.

Another practice that's on the increase with agencies is to play up their role (such as it really is) in placing manuscripts with agents. Here's the second point on one agency's 'about us' page:

We have outstanding connections with film & literary agents, and we can help to place outstanding work directly with agents or publishers.

and a little further down the page they add:

If your work is strong enough, we'll recommend it to literary agents.

It's understandable, in a competitive market, why agencies are stepping up their claims to be a bridge between writers and agents. But essentially any such claims are verging on dishonest, on three counts. First, their job is to help a writer improve her manuscript, not to find an agent for her. Second, an agent is not a publisher in any case (the manuscript agencies are of course not so stupid as to promise placing your book with a publisher), and an obvious question is if your book is good enough to put in front of an agent, why not simply do so yourself? (Bearing in mind also that the agency will charge you a fee if an agent takes you on.) And third, the agencies have connections with some agents, but not all. Which means your scope of agents is limited if you go through them. Don't forget: you are hiring an agent, ultimately, and you are the one who best knows what you need in one. How can an agency possibly know all that you need from an agent?

Terry


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Sorry, I should have said the agencies will charge you a fee if your book is published. This is usually 10% of your advance, which means in effect you'll be losing 25% (agent taking 15% too) of what is normally the main payment you'll receive for your book.

I've looked at a view websites offering professional editing and critique but some of them seem to go further than offering critique etc. If they deem your book marketable, they help to put you in touch with agents. Seems a bit suspect to me. I've heard the Literary Consultancy is one such organisation but I thought it was one of the more professional outfits. The same goes for Writers Workshop.

Sorry, I hadn't read your other post before answering earlier. Yes, I think it is suspect, for agencies to offer finding you an agent. Apart from falsely raising a writer's hopes and expectations so that they then pay the agency for a purpose outside (what should be) their remit, as I said it's a completely redundant offer anyway. Why would an agent take you on just because a ms agency sends them your book? Okay, they may take a little more initial time in reading it. But no agent will take on a book they don't believe they can sell, and the proof of that is almost entirely in the reading.

Terry

Some consultancies put a lot of emphasis in their marketing on their ability to put your MS forward to leading agencies in a way that jumps clean over the slush pile. I find that suspect as it's extremely unlikely that they will do this.

I realise I'm just repeating what's been said, but I like the sight of my own typing.

Thanks for all your responses. By the sounds of it, the best way forward is to try and copy edit and fine tune my own novel as best as possible. What's the best WW group in terms of posting extracts of my novel for critique? I'd like to know if it's publishable or a pile of cack. Synopsis and cover letter I can also cover off here.

Someone asked me if First Editing was a US based organisation. They are but they have a UK branch by the looks of it. But as there largely a US company I guess they will be at a disadvantage in terms of their knowledge of the UK market potentially. So this has sealed the deal for me and saved me £600. I'll go it on my own with a bit of help I hope from my writeword friends.

What's the best WW group in terms of posting extracts of my novel for critique?

It#s best to go for one of the more active groups, to get a good range of feedback.
Gaius's Intensive Critique group is very good. Also Womans Fiction has become a lot more active recently.