Hi Everyone
I'm in the process of submitting two manuscripts -a memoir and a novel length fantasy. The memoir has been accepted three times, but in each case the publisher wanted a 'contribution'. I have declined each time. The publishers were: Woodfield Publishing, Olympia, and Austin Macauley. Austin Macauley still have the fantasy for consideration, and as yet have not mentioned contributions. I have now been asked for both full manuscripts by Blackstone Publishers. Pre-empting a request for contributions, I phoned them. I have been told they definitely don't request contributions for all works, but they do for some. I must say all the publishers were extremely helpful, and I felt straight with me. However I just wondered if anyone has any experience of publishing with either Austin Macauley or Blackstone?

Hearing other people's experiences would be most welcome.

I've come to the conclusion that the writing of the book is by far the best part. Looking for publishers is such hard work!

Thanks to all
Franci

No experience at all, but I've had a quick 'Google' for you, and certainly for Austin Macauley and Woodfield, it doesn't look very encouraging. The artwork on the Woodfield site looks positively grim, and when I browsed one of their sample titles, the kindest verdict on the writing would be 'pedestrian.'

I'm an absolute beginner, but one thing I have taken to heart is the maxim that money flows from the publisher to the writer, not the other way around.

Unless it's clear that what's offered and what's wanted is self-publishing, I'd be very wary of any organisation trying to part you from your hard-earned cash.

Look on Preditors and Editors to see if any publishers are legit or not.

Get yourself a copy of The Writer & Artists's Yearbook, that has all legit publishers in it.



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According to Preds and Eds, Austin Macauly are a vanity publishers.

Have you ruled out going the more usual route of trying to find an agent first? Sumbitting direct to publishers will cut down quite a lot of avenues, because so many trade publishers won't accept unagented submissions.

Rosy

Thanks Everyone

Some answers to your comments:

Astrea - Yes! Woodfield did look grim! I dropped any idea of them very quickly. I am not paying anyone for publishing. I fully intend to keep trying traditional publishers for as long as it takes.

Katerina - Yep - I have the Writer's & Artists yearbook and the Writer's Handbook. So far I have chosen most publishers, except Woodfield, from them. Blackstone told me today (when I phoned them) that they do not ask for 'contributions' for all books, but they do for some. I'll see how it goes.

Rosy - Yes I'm now leaning towards trying to acquire an agent and have already contacted two. It seems most of them are as busy as the publishers, and take at least a couple of months to come back to you. Oh well, I guess I'll just keep on writing the next novel. Must stay dogged and determined and never give up!

Thanks All
Franci
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Just another quick thank you to Katerina - Preds & Eds looks like a really useful site!

Franci
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one thing I have taken to heart is the maxim that money flows from the publisher to the writer, not the other way around.

Yes, exactly. If a 'publisher' asks you for money at any stage, or looks as if they ask any of their other authors that, then they're not a conventional publisher. It's a basic rule of publishing, that the author doesn't pay: the publisher pays the author, usually to acquire the book, or occasionally (if it's a tiny publisher) only once it's published. If you're asked for money, they're either a company set up honestly to help writers self-publish their work, in which case they'll be realistic about what they offer, and don't promise anything more. Or they're a vanity publisher. The latter sometimes calls itself 'subsidy' publishing, or even 'self-publishing', but they're not.

This isn't just because authors are greedy and want to be paid. Fundamentally, a proper publisher is in the business of risk: they risk paying you for your book, hoping to make money by selling it. They therefore have to work hard to sell it, and make their money back. And that's the only way to actually get your book into shops and therefore the hands of anyone beyond your nearest and dearest. A vanity publisher doesn't need to sell your book to make a profit: they make their profit out of you, and the books you manage to sell to said nearest and dearest.

This is a run-down of how to tell the difference between a conventional publisher, and all the other kinds:

http://www.writersworkshop.co.uk/selfpubvs.asp

and this is a bandit-spotters guide for the real villains.

http://www.writersworkshop.co.uk/Bandits.asp

We've seen people join here, all thrilled about the 'deal' they got which 'only' cost them £X,000, as long as they 'only' buy X number of copies. Only the book's not in the shops, and sometimes not even on Amazon, and the promised marketing, reviews, publicity hasn't materialised, because the 'publisher' doesn't have the means or the need to do all the work which results in that kind of thing. And very often the book itself is pretty rubbish-looking, particularly if it's been produced cheaply by print-on-demand technology. It's heartbreaking to hear about.

Of course, the more cheaply the vanity press does it, the more of your money they're tucking away in their bank account. Whereas a proper publisher knows that how the book is produced affects sales, and the publisher's reputation, and so on. They still have to be sensible about the costs, but it's a balance, not a rip-off.

Emma

Beware of any publisher that asks for a contribution - also, some charge for a 'reader's report'. And be wary of any publisher that uses print-on-demand (POD) technology or offers to put it out soley in ebook format as that will severely limit sales.


- NaomiM

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Also beware of any agent who asks you to pay 'reasonable admin. costs'. Admin. costs are not your responsibility.

Also beware of any agent who asks you to pay 'reasonable admin. costs'. Admin. costs are not your responsibility.

Yes, and then again no. You should absolutely never, ever pay an agent anything up front: not a reading fee, not an editorial fee, nothing. Like a publisher, they take a risk on you, in the hope of making it back on commission. No other arrangement is acceptable.

However, it's entirely legitimate for an agency to charge things like photocopying costs to your account, which are then taken off, along with their commission, when they've sold your book, and receive the money from the publisher on your behalf. They then forward the rest of the money to you. It should be in the agency agreement just how this works.

Oh, and Franci, if you are offered a publishing or agency contract, you're eligible to join the Society of Authors, and have it checked out by their lawyers. You'd be mad not to.

Good point, Emma, Yes, it comes out of the money from the publisher, but if you're paying up front then there's less incentive for them to sell your novel.

Thanks Emma and Naomi

Some of what you have said I already knew, but there is always more and more to know. Finding a publisher seems to be a bit like searching for a needle in a haystack when the haystack is full of mines! I have already started to be suspicious of every publisher who asks for the full manuscript, and I now phone and ask if they request 'contributions'. I will most certainly join the Society of Authors and have the publishing contract checked if I'm offered one. Thanks very much for that suggestion.
Sometimes one could get a bit disillusioned and almost lean towards the idea of paying two or three thousand pounds to get published. Then I think no, I just need to be patient and keep submitting.

Thanks once again for the excellent info and support

Franci

Franci, have you approached any agents?

Unlike France, where they don't really have them, in the UK market they're really the only way into many (though by no means all) of the big publishers, if you're writing fiction. Plus, if you do approach an agent, they'll be much less keen to take you on if you've already exhausted some of the places where they would have sent your book. Plus there are all sorts of good reasons for having an agent anyway.

It's usually a good idea to tackle agents first, and only if you get no joy, then start going direct to publishers.

Emma

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Meant to say, for the purposes of the book trade, memoir counts as fiction not non-fiction, in that it's handled and sold in the same way as novels are.

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Sorry, I see you have approached agents. Yes, waiting is the name of the game, I'm afraid.

Hi Emma

Although I live in France I've been submitting to U.K publishers. I've noticed that a lot of the publishers I would like to submit to only take work through agents, hence now trying one. I noticed that this agent states that they dislike submissions which 'dive-bomb the whole of the Writers’ and Artists’ Yearbook!' Trouble is most agents want about two months to let you know if they're interested. I wouldn't want to upset them by sending out multi-submissions; so may I ask you what you think is a reasonable number of submissions to send out in the first instance?

Many thanks again
Franci

I think up to ten is reasonable.

Franci, ignore the no-multiple-submissions thing, or you'll be there till Domesday; they've no particular right to demand that you're exclusive, after all.

Just submit sample chapters etc. - I used to do it in tens- and if two ask to see the full thing at once, then it's up to you if you tell them about the other one or not - I'd suggest you do, since it does no harm for them to think that others are interested too. But don't do it in a way which sounds as if you're setting up a beauty pageant and pitting them against each other, which they hate: just be straightforward.

Emma

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Crossed with Leila. Ten is a nice, round number, after all.