Hi, To follow on in this theme I'd be grateful for guidance on the following: my novel was accepted by an agent who did not normally take on first time novellists and who had absolute faith in it, but then came the rejections from publishers and the advice from her that I seek small publishers myself. Given the rejections, would there be anything to be gained from a new agent in the hope that different answers might be forthcoming? Views gratefully received! Thanks

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I should add that I have endeavoured to post the first 3 chapters on this site, so when it appears, comments gratefully received (be nice)!

Welcome to WriteWords.

I don't know, we talk a lot here about the need to be professional, to not take rejection personally and so on. But the other side of the coin is that agents need to be responsible too. To take on a new writer, and give them such a lot of hope by telling them you have 'absolute faith' in their book, then to turn them away just because the big publishers didn't bite … Well, I guess if nothing else, this story illustrates that times are changing. Agents used to take on writers for life and would expect to have to push their first few books hard before much profit came back. Your agent could at least have told you up-front what appears to be the truth about the way she operates, i.e. that she'll try some big publishers (because they can pay bigger advances which means more profit for her) but if they don't bite, you're back on your own. Then you could have decided whether to risk your feelings with her. Did you sign a contract with her, by the way? It might be worth seeing what it says about premature termination.

As for whether you should try another agent, I think that depends on who your previous one was. If she was with a big agency, it might well be worth trying a smaller one. Alternatively, why not try some smaller publishers yourself, as your former agent suggested? Do you have any positive quotes from the rejection letters you can use in a cover letter? There's nothing wrong with telling a small publishers you were rejected by bigger ones – they won't see that as your book being no good; just that big publishers usually have more commercial agendas.

Terry

Hello, thank you for that. The agent was surprised that none of the publishers she submitted the manuscript to bit and has now advised me that she is happy for me to terminate the contract if I wished to (yes, one was signed) although should a small publisher express an interest she is more than happy to negotiate on my behalf.

The book got through to the second stage (whatever that is!) with Piatkus and Virago and Pan Macmillan like it but was launching authors with books in a similar genre, so didn't wish to take it any further. So there were positive comments, but mostly I didn't see the details of the rejections - just received the bad news via the agent.

It is now with a few small publishers, so fingers remain crossed, but the notice for the day job remains in my drawer!

Thanks again, Fiona

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In case anyone is interested, the first 3 chapters of Dancing Housewives are now at:
http://www.writewords.org.uk/archive/8930.asp
Fiona

Just to update you all: I went to London yesterday to meet with the agent who had offered to represent me, and had lunch, and a two-hour talk with her. I'm very pleased to say that I'll now be represented by her. So it's back to waiting for publishers to come back and give their opinions.

Now, I'm having internet trouble. My computer has decided that it doesn't want to connect to this site, and so I might not be back in a while. As my month-long membership runs out in a few days, and I might not be able to get back here before then, you might not hear much from me for a while. But I will update you if and when I can, and meanwhile, I'll keep writing.

Thanks to all for your support and advice, by the way--it has been much appreciated.

Sorry if this makes a double post--but when I checked it seemed that it hadn't posted the first time. Horrible computer.

Just to update you all: I went to London yesterday to meet with the agent who had offered to represent me, and had lunch, and a two-hour talk with her. I'm very pleased to say that I'll now be represented by her. So it's back to waiting for publishers to come back and give their opinions.

Now, I'm having internet trouble. My computer has decided that it doesn't want to connect to this site, and so I might not be back in a while. As my month-long membership runs out in a few days, and I might not be able to get back here before then, you might not hear much from me for a while. But I will update you if and when I can, and meanwhile, I'll keep writing.

Thanks to all for your support and advice, by the way--it has been much appreciated.

I'm having internet trouble. My computer has decided that it doesn't want to connect to this site, and so I might not be back in a while. As my month-long membership runs out in a few days

Blah blah blah!

Jesus, Jane! After all the support we've given you, I really didn't think you would do this. Your computer has decided it doesn't want to connect to this site? Give us a break. We are adults.

Please prove me wrong?

Dee

Jane, You have to stick around for a bit longer so that we can hear the good news when it comes, then I can be a bit more optimistic about the chances of success with a second agent! Fiona

Dee,

I got my email notification of your reply and got online speciallly to read what you had written, as you in particular have been very helpful and supportive. I was very disappointed to read your message.

I repeat: I am having computer trouble. I have no idea why, but am taking steps to resolve it. Meanwhile I have to connect to this site using a different service to my usual one, which is very expensive and is beginning to fail like my other one.

As it too will probably quit before the day is out, I won't be able to get online when my membership runs out. So I might have to appear as a different person when I do join up as a full memeber, if the system won't let me use this name (it might think I am someone else, if you see what I mean).

Hope that explains it. I'm rushing so it might not be clear. But please, Dee, don't berate me for having a computer problem. I'm doing what I can, and keeping you informed, and if you don't believe me then there's nothing I can do about it, I'm afraid.

I used to have terrible trouble with this site when I used dial-up. It would take up for forty seconds for a page to load.

But just a small note: someone once told me that if a book is worth reading, it's worth paying for. I think the same goes for internet services, helplines and communities. Many members who see the value of this place don't feel the need to wait until the last minute. Mind you, I'm sure there are members on the site who keep renewing their "free" membership by a registering a new email address; God bless hotmail eh? Good job membership isn't based on IP address.



Colin M

Jane,

I've got to say, I'm with Dee on this one. I've had brush-offs in the past that sound as suspiciously unconvincing as this one. I think it's the coincidences that don't convince. Problems with two computers coinciding with free membership running out and so on. But good that you managed to let us know that you have an agent. Just give it to us straight: you had some (free) fun for a while but now you're moving on to better things.

Terry

Well, it's clear that Terry and Dee are both pretty irritated with me, and all because they can't believe that I am having trouble with my email connection. Shame on them both for being so cynical.

If either of them read this, they might want to try this link:

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=discuss.thread&threadid=187266&forumid=1

Don't know if it will work, as you have to be a member to post there too (although it costs nothing). If it doesn't work, you could go to

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk

Log in, and search for messages by me--DIYgirl. You'll see that I am asking for help on the very problem I outlined above. You'll also be able to read about my attempts to get my phone line sorted out, which is probably partly to blame for my difficulties connecting here now.

I don't think that either Terry's or Dee's comments were appropriate in a public forum. They could have sent me a private message if they had felt troubled: as it is they have each implied that I am lying here. Which is not true, not friendly, and not at all what I had expected from this forum.

I've just re-read your mail up there, the one that got the reaction from Dee. I'm trying to remain impartial, but it does sound very much like "goodbye", rather than, "bastard computer, gimme a day or two to sort it out"

Colin

Hmm, and we didn't get the name of the agent either. Oh well. Sanferry ann. Thanks for the comment on books and websites etc, Colin - it geed me up.

Joe

San Ferry Ann? I didn't know what the hell that meant. Had a quick search and a play and found this. Brilliant!

When the British Tommy arrived in France to fight in the First World War, he was presented with a language he struggled to make sense of. What he did to the pronunciation of French and Belgian place names is a wonder, such as turning Ypres into Wipers. He picked up a lot of French expressions, but he changed them into something that sounded English. This was the fate of ça ne fait rien, “it does not matter”, which became a British Army catchphrase in that war as an expression of resigned—or cynical—acceptance of some state of affairs, usually brought about by bungling officers. One English version of it was the one you quote, others were san fairy anna and even send for Mary Ann, though perhaps san fairy ann was the most common. It largely fell out of use after the War, and seems not to have been taken up by servicemen in the Second World War.

I'll see if I can sneak it into conversation at my mother-in-law's this afternoon.



Colin M

Colin - it looks like there's no standard spelling then! My dear old demented dead dad (WW2 veteran) used it, and even had a little song , to the tune of Bye Bye Blackbird (comes right at the end of the tune)

"Sanferry ann, sailor gerr
I'm going back to anglaterr
Blackbird bye-bye" - all spellings approximate and how I kind of heard them in childhood - 'sailor gerr' is of course 'c'est la guerre' (it's the war), which when said with a suitable gallic shrug, expresses in a resigned and stoical way the hazards of war. Or website communities!

Joe (remembering Sapper Youncz)