Im very keen to get something published. I am plodding away at a novel and have completed the first five chapters. I sent three to a publisher and their comments were very encouraging but they recommended I get an agent. I am happy to send these three chapters to all and sundry but I am pretty certain that if someone is interested they will then ask for the remaining chapters. I guess what I'm trying to say is should you only submit samples from completed work?

That would be the sensible thing to do, yes.

If you can't bear to wait, you could try sending a synopsis and one chapter to an agent. Read the directory here and think about who you should send to, as that will save time and money as well as emotional anxiety:-)

Why not write and ask them if they will consider a partially written novel? They’d appreciate that more than a submission of something they can’t handle.

Dee

Dee's suggestion is a good one. I know Lisa Jewell had written only three chapters of her first novel before submitting; an agent liked it, she then took a year to write the rest and received (if memory serves, and I think it does) a £100k advance for it.

Terry Edge posted on a previous thread that he had lunched with a senior editor who said (and I've copied verbatime here) "1) Don't write the whole book before submitting. Just write two-three chapters – the first and then either the next two or a chapter from later in the book that shows, say, some exciting elements of the story. One of the reasons for this is that even if an editor likes your book, it's almost certain that they will want you to make changes, e.g. change your main character from male to female (which is obviously easier to do if you haven't finished the book)."

So some editors clearly are open to approaches with unfinished novels, but I wouldn't like to suggest they all are.

Andrea

Andrea,

I feel I should qualify that earlier comment a bit. Although that editor said what she did in terms of applying to anyone who submits to her, I think she may have tailored it to me somewhat, as someone she's worked with and who she knows can and will finish a novel. I don't know any agents who would seriously consider a new writer who'd only written a few chapters of a novel - unless there are other reasons for doing so, e.g. what the writer looks like/ethnic desirability/celebrity status, etc.

In short, it's best to finish the book first. If nothing else, this will save you the stress of having to rush to completion if someone asks to see the rest of it.

Terry

Okay Tezza - I stand corrected.

(Altho Liza Jewell still got away with it )

Andrea

<Added>

Mind you, right enough, Liza is very pretty

Terry's right, but you seem keen for feedback, Courtney. If you think what you've got is dynamite, it's always worth taking a punt on an agent while continuing to write. I don't know about Liza Jewell but I've certainly read interviews with new writers - one of a city thriller, and the other of a children's adventure come to mind - who received huge advances on the back of a synopsis. Don't do it, however, if you think a knock-back will affect your enthusiasm or confidence, because you're clearly brimming with both and they're too precious to compromise:-) Shyama

Courtney,

Just an observation, but "Im very keen to get something published. I am plodding away at a novel ... " would make more sense to me the other way round, i.e. "I'm very keen on the novel I'm writing but plodding away at getting it published."

In other words, be wary of our celebrity-soaked times, where the first thought in everyone's minds is getting noticed, rather than producing work that's so striking/inspirational/ original/funny/moving that it can't help but be noticed and for the right reasons.

I don't intend to be preachy here, but it's interesting how you phrased your desire.

Terry

Good point, Terry.

Hopefully it was just an unfortunate choice of words.

Dee

(sorry for the delay, I was on holiday)

I feel that my choice of vocabularic expression requires some clarification.

I stated that I was plodding away at novel because I had the idea two years ago and havent had the time to invest in finishing it... its getting quite frustrating as I dont seem to have the time to complete it... hence plodding.

Secondly, I am desperate to get published because I am in a position whereby I need to sort myself out financially and I am recently married, therefore I have little free/efficient time for writing as when I return home from work I am drained and my wife wants my attention on the weekends. I am finishing at my current employer at the end of January and I want to set off in a career as a writer before I am herded into another dead-end job. My wife has agreed to give me two months off between jobs in order to write. My fear is that if I dont get into a stonger position - i.e. an agent so that those around me will take me more seriously - then my dream of becoming a serious writer will be taken away from me... was this too much information??! - Wow, got that off my chest.

I'd like to thank all of you for your advice and comments, I think I will do a mixture of all of them as the book is being written from three different perspectives and maybe that might be a mistake as an agent/publisher may like the style of the first 'voice' and be dissappointed when later on the narrative is taken by a different voice and from third person to first person... what do you think?? (this is another issue I know)

Courtney, if making money from a novel is your primary goal then you probably need to approach it from a different angle to the one I suspect most people on WW come from. Looking at children's writers, for example, the majority of regularly published authors make less than the national average annual salary. They supplement their income by doing schools visits, taking evening classes, tutoring, etc. There are only a few long-established ones who make a pretty good salary. Then there are even fewer who make a very good living up to riches beyond imagining (and there are only one or two in this final bracket).

Very roughly, you can divide children's (well, and adult) writers into those who concentrate on building a reputation as a good writer but struggle to make much money at it, and those who aim specifically at writing stuff that will sell in big numbers. There are different requirements for each. For the latter, it certainly helps if you have a personal story that can help sell your books – that you're very young; that you're from an ethnic group publishers are currently keen to market to; that you're good-looking, etc. You will also have a personal drive towards turning out stuff quickly, that hits the right buttons in terms of what's currently 'in', and you won't worry too much about getting the plot water-tight, or making your characters truly memorable. What's vital in this bracket is that you get yourself inside the industry as quickly as possible – so you'll need contacts, an agent, be willing to sell yourself and your product everywhere at any time.

Is it possible to do both? Well, maybe. Phillip Pullman is probably the best example of a writer who's work is excellent and who also (now) makes a lot of money. But it's difficult to think of many others and remember that he was far from an overnight success.

In short, you can make money quickly if you have a personal story and an idea for a book that an agent thinks will sell. You might even get a big advance before finishing the book. But this is very rare. If you want to make money from the 'normal' path, of becoming a good writer who can be trusted to produce good work, it will be a long time before you make much money. Remember, for the average novel, you won't be getting much more than a few thousand pounds advance, and that will probably be in three stages – the first on signing the contract, which normally only happens after you've finished the book. In other words, it's a slow process.

Terry

is it potentially a commercial novel because to hope from vast earnings from a literary novel is well like wishing to win the Lottery. You write literary novels cos you are compelled.

Good luck!

Courtney, There's a misconception that only those with vast amounts of free time on their hands, write books successfully. In truth, most first novelists are juggling a thousand responsibilities and obligations, just as you are. What drives them is the belief that what they are writing is good, and that, hopefully, it will sell, because we don't write just for ourselves, we write to reach others. It's why sites like WriteWords are so important: it enables others to access our work. Writers need audiences, and the bigger the audience the better, because it provides an income that frees one up to write even more. On that basis, it is fantastic that you have an appetite for success and an ambition to succeed. However... you are putting up endless excuses for why it's not actually translating on the page. Is it just a matter of time, or have you lost the impetus? Are you writing the wrong story? Would going back to the beginning, help? I say this because you're leaving yourself open to a bashing by being so focused on the fact that you're not focussed:-) Don't worry about not fitting a particular genre or type - there are fashions and vacancies in writing as there are in any business, and if you have an advantage that's great, but if what you're writing is brilliant, you don't need one:-) More books are published than ever: it's a fallacy to suggest otherwise. If I were you, I'd stop worrying about whether or not it will sell, because there's no way you can know until it's finished, and most novels need a few rewrites before an agent will know. Stop worrying and get writing. Shyama.

Terry/Jardinery,

I hold my hands up! I am writing for a commerical audience that is true, but I dont think that that makes my efforts less valid to literature than someone who slavishly aims to create a masterpiece. I do not kid myself that I could write a classic piece of literature but I beleive that I could write an entertaining story and ammuse some of the people some of the time.

As for motivation: My motivation is not money, fame or fortune, if I wanted to be rich I would do something else. I write because it feels right and it feels the most natural thing for me to do.

I think that it is important to note that two of the greatest writers in terms of international acclaim (Shakespeare and Dickens) wrote for the masses as much as for the art. - I still do not claim to be at their level - who would??!? So I am not ashamed to write for a commercial audience but think it is unfair to assume that someone writing for a commercial market is writing for money or prestige when in truth they just want to write and be published, otherwise what is the point of writing??!

Shyama,

I will continue to write as see where things go. It is true that often I try to make excuses for myself in order to avoid the prospect of failure, but then that is a psychological matter and not a 'writing' matter is it?!?

Thanks again to you all for you comments. Courtney