This may sound like a silly question but when I look at agent websites and in the Writer's Yearbook it doesn't say. So do you know what the protocol is? Can I send chapters for my second novel as well as my first?

Also thanks for the advice I've received from some of you in other posts.

Best wishes

Miss Jones

No, you only send the chapters of one novel.


As a general note, only write the submission (covering letter & synopsis) for the one novel - not two.
The second novel would require it's own round of submissions - unless it's a sequel, in which case, don't mention it in your submission for novel one, and don't submit it separately. Whether or not it's picked up will depend on the fate of the first novel

The one proviso is childrens picture books. Since these are only <1000 words long, some agents ask for 4 stories per submission.
Also, again for childrens fiction, if the mss is under 15K words then send the whole thing, not just the opening chapters.


- NaomiM

Why would you advise not to even mention the second novel, Naomi? When I was subbing, I wrote a couple of sentences about what my second novel was about - I might have included a very small sample of it as well, being a tad cheeky by nature, had it not been in quite a different style (didn't want to confuse them, but did want to show that I had more than one YA novel in me). In any case, mentioning it didn't do me any harm at all. As it was, my agent didn't ask to read the second one until the first had been bought, and my ed is only just now reading (some of) it, but if the concept is strong then I'd say a couple of lines in the covering letter was a good idea.

As you say, Myrtle, it probably won't do any harm (assuming it's kept short and sweet), but it's doubtful it'll help either. The submission is tailored for the novel you are submitting, anything else you include is just padding. If you avoid saying 'this is my first novel' you are implying there are others, so is it necessary to go into the details?
If it's a sequel it's irrelevant; if it's a different genre it's irrelevant; if it's unfinished, it's irrelevant. However, if the other novel has won some sort of prize, then it would be worth mentioning as part of your bio/writing credits paragraph.


- NaomiM

Ah well, I find it a bit rigid to advise not mentioning it at all or to say "it's doubtful it'll help" - who knows what will help, or what will make your covering letter stand out from all the rest. As long as we don't bombarde them with material...

<Added>

Sorry, I realise that "who knows what will help" is not actually very helpful in itself but I think a snappy summary of a second book is far more relevant than some of the padding that goes into lots of covering letters.

Well I was thinking it over last night Myrtle, and there is probably a lot of padding that 99% of covering letters contain, and maybe the agents eyes just skip over because they are so used to seeing it, in which case, sure, go ahead and include a line about the next book - but certainly don't include a partial synopsis or chapters from it.
The question usually comes up if it is a sequel, and sequels are so closely tied to the fate of the first book that it is not worth mentioning them until you're sitting next to the agent and they ask 'what are you planning for your next project'.

- NaomiM

Hi

I'm interested as am re-vamping my cover letter for book one.

I thought I'd say that am half way through a second book might help? Show am not a one book person?

No?


asking

Ok, I'm probably going to get into trouble for the following, because 'rule one' in submitting to agents, is never try to second guess what they might be thinking, so the following is just one possible scenario. You tell me if it seems logical or not:

Ok, put yourself in the Agent's shoes. Your submission is all about this one novel. If you put additional information in, then you risk conveying far more than you intend to. If you say you are half way through your second novel, that tells the agent you've only completed one novel, which may mean you haven't had much writing experience, so any mistakes in the opening chapters you've submitted they might put down to inexperience, so if they like it, rather than sign you up straight away they may give you a test, by giving you all the rewrites up front and see how you get on. If you manage to pull it off and present them with an A1 redrafted msss, then they will love you. If you don't, then they will assume their first impressions were correct and you need more time to mature as a writer...
Now, do you still want to say 'this is my first novel' or 'I'm half way through writing my second' ?


- NaomiM

<Added>

It is worth remembering that as writers we must have a good command of the language, it's connotations and what we hope to imply by it, and that is as true in a covering letter and synopsis as in the novel itself.

<Added>

...so you would not say 'second novel', but you would say 'next novel' and have a hook line (a summarising sentence or two) to describe it in the covering letter - for 'hook lines', see ' US-style Queries'.

I'm with Myrtle on this one. I don't claim to have a clue how agents think - except my last one who liked to do it a lot . . . oh, sorry, that was drink - but you can't go wrong with enthusiasm. And one way to show enthusiasm is to tell them about what you're up to writing wise, to show them you're thinking beyond this one book. By God, they must get so bored with all those hundreds of completely proper, totally boring, submissions that plonk through their letter boxes. No wonder my last one used to drink a lot. There is of course no formula for what will grab an agent's interest, so here's my latest formula: TALENT - ENTHUSIASM - HUMOUR (SANE KIND) - TAKING THE LEAD. That last one doesn't mean telling the agent how to run her business; it means taking the lead with your writing and where it's going. So you're not tip-toeing up the agent and asking in an inoffensive tone if they'd be so kind as to please spare a few seconds of their incredibly busy day that could be better spent thinking - you're saying, "Hey, I love writing; here's my stuff; here's what I'm going to do next; here's my plans and why they'll work - fancy coming on the adventure with me?"

Terry

I really don't think we can imagine what an agent is thinking when they open a submission - I certainly never expected, as an editor, to feel the kind of quietly bubbling fury over a simple covering letter that I ended up experiencing once my days on the slush pile had passed the one-year stage What gets people's backs up, or makes them think you're an amateur, just from my experience, is the irrelevant material about your children or pets, or your views on the current market. I think a lot of agents ask you to try some rewrites before they sign you up - I certainly wish my first agent had gone to that trouble (we could have saved ourselves a year of heartache), and my second did so and it merely confirmed that we were right for each other, it's not a bad thing, and it wasn't borne out of her suspicions that I didn't have the writing experience, so I don't think that imagined scenario holds true.

But to go back to the original question - is it ok to send chapters? My advice would be to mention in a very snappy way that you have another book available, so that the agent may request a section of it when they (hopefully!) request the full manuscript of the first novel. That's not to say that they will, but if the book has a strong hook they might and I think mentioning it comes under the 'relevant' column or what to include in covering letters.

I do think there's an art to the covering letter, and my hunch is that an agent would rather read a one-line brilliant hook of your next novel than most other things one might be tempted to include

Sorry, that's a bit more than my tuppence-worth! Good luck with your subbing.

The thing is it doesn't matter, at this stage, if the covering letter seems dull and boring, so long as there's nothing in it that'll get you summarily rejected before they've read the all important sample chapters. Simply being a nice, funny, or zippy kind of person is not going to help your submission if the writing's not up to scratch. The sort of person you are is more important when you get called in to meet the agent, not when the agent's intern or reader is working through the slush pile.

As for 'Hook-lines' they are even bigger sods to write than synopses, so it's not something an inexperienced writer should attempt.


- NaomiM

I just can't agree with you there, Naomi. It does matter if the letter is dull and boring - like it or not the letter is the first thing an agent is going to read; it's a piece of writing like any other, and no it's not going to seal the deal, but it's the first impression. And as for not attempting a hook-line just because one is inexperienced - I find that a very surprising thing to say. We have to get good at these things - if we're subbing, we need to have tried out 50 hook-lines until we have just the right one.

But Myrtle, the covering letter is not like a US Query letter where you're trying to convince the agent that it's worth them asking for a full, or partial, and a synopsis. You are already sending them the partial and the synopsis, so you're half way there. If they like the partial and the plot, then they'll ask for more.
Yes, if you can write the A1 covering letter it's going to perk their interest, but that's one with substance like writing credits, CW degree, and an interesing bio. and the majority of writers don't have any of that so they fill the covering letter with puff which, like you said earlier, just annoys the agent. If you imply that the writer has to fill this part of the covering letter with something because it's better to do that than to leave it a bland, boring, covering letter, then you're encouraging puff. All I'm saying is cut out the crap and clear the path to the sample chapters because they are the most important part of the submission, followed by the synopsis.


- NaomiM

<Added>

And for anyone attempting hook lines, don't fill them with cliches. See examples on Nathan Bransford's blog.

<Added>

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Myrtle. I'm aiming my comments at inexperienced writers, but you are an expereinced writer and so, yes, you should be capable of turning out an A1 covering letter, and a hookline, so my comments don't apply.

Naomi, I'm afraid I just don't get what you're saying here; I'm certainly not encouraging puff, I don't know where you got that from. I'm not a very experienced writer (I had a few pre-school books containing about 100 words each to my name when I started), but I am an experienced subber, and all I'm saying is what worked for me, and what used to piss me off when I was going through the slush pile as an editor.

Hopefully, some of the writers trawling through WW for advice will find some sense in this thread, because I think I'm done here

I agree with Terry and Mrytle.

I think it's about finding your style within the expected style. I would disagree with being too prescriptive. I always write that I'm "working on my next novel" because I feel it shows I'm an active writer, I use the last paragraph of my letter to say what 'I' want to say because at the end of the day it's my submission and I want it to sound like me as well as what they want to see.

It's tricky stuff...