Hi

I know we've probably done the whole editorial service thing to death, but I find that what I'm after when I've completed a manuscript is a sort of 'sanity check' - I want someone to read it and tell me if it makes sense, if they liked it as a reader etc - a gut reaction rather than a detailed report on plot and characterisation. Do we ever do that sort of thing between us on the forum? I know that we have novel groups, but they seem to be a few chapters at a time, and fairly detailed. Anyway, I'd be happy to comment on someone else's if anyone fancied giving it a go.

Or is this may have been something that's already been tried and discarded (like most ideas I have )

Cheers

J

It is one of those things that is done on an informal basis between members who agree to swap manuscripts.
It's just a matter of seeing if anyone is in the same boat.


- NaomiM

<Added>

Maybe include a note about what yours is about and how long it is.

Is this for your Shadows of the Evening mss? I recall it had shades of Jasper Fforde to it.

An alternative vto finding a reader on WW is to post the opening chapters on Authonomy or You Write On sites.

Hi Naomi

Yes, that's the one. I've had it on YWO for a while and had some useful comments, I just wondered if the rest of it made sense - you spend so much time polishing the first 3 chapters you forget about the story itself. Haven't heard of the Authonomy site, might give that a try.

Anyway, as I said I'm happy to read anyone else's work (I've often found myself wanting to know what happens after I've read people's opening chapters), so if anyone fancies a swap the link to the first chapter is Shadows and I could email the rest.

Thanks

J

Hi J

I just wanted to add to this thread to show my general interest in this kind of idea. I do have some reservations, however, so it’s not the kind of thing that I would want to jump in to straight away (I’m talking generally, not about your manuscript in particular, which I’m sure is great!).

With regard to my own experience, 4 people have read my ms so far - 2 agents who requested the full, one reviewer at an editorial agency and my boyfriend. The agents and the reviewer loved bits but also had some suggestions for improvement but, nevertheless, in some way, they all cost money (in some way) and a lot of time. My boyfriend’s response was “yeh, it was ok, but you know I only like science fiction and this isn’t it!” so his advice was free but next to useless. What I’m trying to say is that, potentially, a read from another WWer may be a happy medium.

What puts me off a bit is that I think you would have to match your swap quite carefully, which is why I think the idea about posting initial chapters for potential reviewers to see is a really good idea (could you post them on this site?) – again, I’m thinking about my sci-fi-loving boyfriend having to read my literary women’s novel. When you’ve found someone who’s a good match you may need to agree on what feedback is given, as you may have different expectations (e.g. one of you may want 2 pages of criticism, whereas the other many just want to know if it made sense or not).

Anyway, I just really wanted to say that I don’t think you are alone in your interest in this kind of idea, so maybe it is something that could turn out to be really useful…that said, if this thread goes quiet, then I guess it’s just you and me!

Livi

You could also post a request for a mss swap in Private Members forum.

Some WWers have posted their whole mss, in bite-sized chunks, in their group forums over the course of several months, and I think that is a good way to go about it if yuo're not in any sort of a rush. You need to pick a writing group that is fairly active, though, for it to work, otherwise chapters can languish unread for weeks, if not months.
If yuo are worried about the structure, you can post a several page outline in the Synopsis & outline group for feedback.
If you're worried about whether the prose is ok, in a technical sense, and whether the 'voice' is consistent through the mss, then post sample extracts in the group forums - one don't really need to read the whole mss to see if the 'voice' starts slipping in later chapters.

As a general comment, I am always wary of mss swaps in case the underlying need is for a confidence boost; to have a reader say 'yeah, this is really good' - what happens if the writer doesn't hear that?
What if the mss you've recieved in exchange for yours is crap? How are you going to break the bad news to the person reading yours, if you've both agreed this isn't going to be a proper critique, but just a simple read through? Should you put the time in to critique it properly to help the writer correct their mistakes, or do you just get the red pen out and circle the bits you think don't work and then leave it to the writer to work out why? ....it could open a whole can of worms. At the very least you should both come up with a set of criteria for the read through, maybe a set of code letters for boring bits, good bits, whatever you want to hear from the exercise.


- NaomiM

<Added>

'gut reactions' are mostly on the lines of 'yeah, I liked it/didn't like it' and without a proper critique that is a purely subjective and largely meaningless comment - would Dan Browne have published DVC if someone had turned to him and said 'good story, but the prose, the dialogue and the characterisations are crap'?

I know what you mean, Livi. The process of posting odd chapters on this site always helps you to tease out the critics who are more useful from those who have less to contribute. And not, I hasten to add, because those are the ones who say the nicest things. It is simply because they seem to get what you are trying to do, so when when they spot some kind of flaw - whether stylistic or in the plot or in the characterisation - you are more likely to find their observations useful.

Thanks for your comments - I still think there could be a place for this but I can see the pitfalls. Swaps are probably a bad idea, too personal and too formal, and too hard to match up. I suppose from my point of view I'm looking to find out if the whole thing hangs together and makes sense, so what I need is a reader who wouldn't mind reading the rest of it after they've read the opening - maybe people could put a note in their opening chapters that the rest of it is available for review? Then it's purely voluntary. I don't know. Anyway, it was just a thought - if I ever have another one I'll let you know

Cheers

J

I'm sorry my comments came across as rather negative. It is a good idea and it certainly works for some people. I remember Stephen King saying in On Writing that he has a handful of readers who are non-writing freinds who check through the draft before he sends it in to his editor. And there are several authors who have a couple of fellow authors (whom they've met and kept in touch with from CW/degree couses) who read their work before they send it to the editor.
Quite a lot of writers now 'workshop' their work in creative writing groups, or ask their local book club to read and comment (in the latter case it can help to have a few copies printed off via Lulu so it has the look and feel of a novel).
It maybe more a case of calling in a few favours to get it read, rather than swapping mss.



- NaomiM

Naomi

I don't think you were being negative, just realistic - you've obviously given this more thought than I had! I'll just have to find some fresh readers, I've worn mine out and they've gone into hiding. Anyone would think they didn't want to read draft 27 of my latest masterpiece . I suppose it's all a bit academic anyway, given that the only time an agent requested the full manuscript he said the story was fine, it was just that nobody in their right mind would want to buy it (or words to that effect).

Thanks again

J

If it really is a basic read through you want, have you thought of asking someone you know who reads a lot? I know friends reading our work can be fraught with problems, but if you just want to know if it makes sense, or where their attention wanders you could ask them to tell you those things only.

the only time an agent requested the full manuscript he said the story was fine, it was just that nobody in their right mind would want to buy it (or words to that effect).

I believe the Agents said the same thing to Jasper Fforde but he persisted and now we have the wonderful Thursday Next series.
It might be worth finding out who Fforde's Agent is - and Malcolm Pryce's (Aberystwyth Mon Amour) - and submitting it to them.


- NaomiM