Evening all. Sitting here waiting for the snow to arrive!

Seriously though, following on from the previous post about earnings, it's got me thinking as to WHY people continue to write if the chances of success are so low.

Please be honest, do you continue to write in the hope that one day you WILL make it?(finacially).

I know it's always been the same, artists of the 18th/19th centuries have been reliant on wealthy patrons to support them and most writers have been from middle class familes supported by trust funds. So why do I think it'll be any different in the 21st century?

On the business side of things I know it's quite simple. Produce something that everyone wants and you'll make money. If it's popular and will sell, someone will take a chance on you. But how do we know what will be popular? We don't. So we have to have a self belief that what we produce will one day fit the bill and be snapped up and so we strive on....and on....and on.....well I do anyway! What about YOU?

I sit drawing and writing at every opportunity in the hope that something I'm producing will one day be published and make me a living. Enough money so that I can call myself a successful author/illustrator. I always knew it would be hard but these are the only skills/talents I have, and so I continue to live in hope that those talents will bring me success. But should the only driving force of what we do be to earn money?

Bev

Well what started me off was a story fell into my lap which I had to write.
What kept me going to the end was the sense of accomplishment I would feel on completing it.
What kept me writing after that was trying to recapture the exhilaration I'd felt with parts of the first one.
Then I went through a phase of saying 'well one only writes because one can't not write' - as though it was an addiction, or the only reason why anyone would want to continue to write was because it's in one's blood, and what other point can there be to writing when it's so difficult to get published?
But I grew out of that.
And now I write because I want public regognition. Because, despite the difficulties, and the impossibilities of getting published, and the lack of renumeration even if I am published, I've now reached a stage in my writing where I think I'm finally, almost, good enough, I enjoy it for the most part, and I do want to be published and if I can't be published I probably would give up now because it's a hell of a lot of work to just do it for nothing.


- NaomiM

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But how do we know what will be popular? We don't.

Very true. You just have to keep writing in the hope that at some point you'll hit the right combination.

Thanks for that reply NaomiM, it reflects exactly how I feel!

If I wanted to do something for nothing (i.e. no regognition/renumeration) I'd simply volunteer my hours away LOL!

I love what I produce and put my heart and soul into my work, and I am always striving to do better with each new project. I don't expect something for nothing but the last few years has seen such a rise in reality TV celebs, making 'stars' of participants with very little talent, that it's quite hard to keep motivated, especially when I was told as a children that hard work and talent pays off (yeah, right!).

It's very comforting to 'be' with other like minded people on this site who are also trying to break into one of the most difficult industries on the face of the earth.

Thankfully my partner is an electrician by trade (in management at the mo), so at least if I need a bit of a lift I can ask him to put my name up in lights!! (re:previous post).

Bev

Yes, it is finding the motivation to keep writing that's hard. It's not just the motivation to complete the first novel, or the second, or even the third...it's to go beyond that.
Hemingway said to become a writer one must first write a million words, and I feel that I've pretty much got that bit under my belt and now it's time for a real goal to aim for. And that has to be publication, since I've now got enough stuff in my proverbial bottom drawer which I've written 'for myself' to keep me amused for the rest of my lifetime; I don't think I need any more of it if it's just going to be for me.


- NaomiM

Snow's arrived in style here!

I think if you only do it for the money, your chances of being published are very slim indeed. What is it that sees you through your million words - Richard Sennett's 10,000 hours, 8-10 years of a normal working life - till you reach something like mastery of your craft, if not the overwhelming, passionate desire to write it, and hone it, and do the boring leg-work of getting the commas right and the painful stuff of having others critique it, and the hard-cash stuff of research, and the loneliness (never on WW, of course ) and so on?

For most of us, we don't write to make money, we make money in order to write. Hopefully, it's our writing that earns it, at least partly. Yes, more money is nicer than less, and not just because it buys nice things and even, possibly, brings a bit of temporary security. More money may also be about being heard more: about having affirmation and validation that someone thinks that more rather than fewer people will want to read what we've written. It's also getting our writing published which is the key in the door to writing-related work, which most of us would rather do to make up the difference than non-writing related work.

I agree with Naomi that while the original impulse must come from inside, in the end there's a limit to how long most people want to go on for without, as it were, being heard on a scale which you can only achieve with publication. For me, I could go on while I felt that each thing I wrote was progress from the last. It might not necessarily be better in an absolute sense, because so often when you try stretching yourself the first effort at the new level is actually worse than earlier, less ambitious ones - the ugly duckling stage. But if I could see that there was still a road ahead, however baffling, I could keep going. It was still bloody hard, but I don't regret it. If the first novel I wrote which came very close to being bought had been bought, I hope I would have gone on working at my craft and art, and not just settled back into writing a string of similar books. But it would have been quite scary, and difficult, to push myself as hard and in as many different directions, as I was able to in my unpublished state, if I'd had an editor and agent and contracts breathing down my neck. Being published changes your whole relationship with your writing in all sorts of ways, and not all of them positive or easily dealt with.

Emma

It is a salutary thought, though that publication is still only the next marker along a very long path. As Louise Doughty said last year after published her 6? novel, the validation of publication wears off and you start wanting the recognition from one's peers that comes with winning the various awards that are out there, and for some, even the Man Booker prise is not enough. But then, as with any career, one must have one's ambitions, be it the thanks from the boss, the payrises, the promotions....


- NaomiM

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...and where's the bloody snow we were promised then?

Primarily, I write because it's fun. I know that really it's the kid in me, still wanting to play act, or move toy figures around. That childish wonder never went away, I suppose, just grew into something more adult, darker and visceral. I've always been a dreamer, and writing seems to be the most constructive outlet for that.

Whenever I get down in the dumps about financial success from writing, I remind myself of the above and also that I've already achieved things I never thought possible - like being published in the first place. It turned out to be much different from what I expected, but it keeps me going, and as long as I have stories to tell...

JB



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And there is quite a bit of snow here. The world is white and tyre-tracked.

No snow down here in Cornwall, thank goodness. Though I'm meant to be travelling to Gloucestershire on Tuesday.
For me, the money thing would be a lovely by-product and would make quite a difference in my life, but it's not the main goal. Being published, on the other hand, is. And I suspect that it gets in the way of a lot of things, including the joy of writing itself which for the moment - and I hope temporarily - I've lost. Thinking too much about the product can really hinder the process, or at least the pleasure in it.
*slinks away, because finding it hard to call herself a writer at the moment*
Susiex

Chin up, susie, you'll get through it.

We finally have a light dusting...I suspect that's as good as it's going to get. Anyway, I'm throwing all caution to the wind and tucking into a Christmas box of Thorntons which will probably put me out of action with a migraine for the next couple of days.

At midnight, Naomi?!?
Actually, I've just polished off some matzo crackers with almond butter, so I can't talk.
Time for bed.
Sleep well, all.
Susiex

At midnight, Naomi?!?

Ah, but it's that timeless appeal of chocolate...and it's appealing right now.

Can you please explain to me Naomi how a Christmas box of Thorntons is still intact in February. There's only so far one can suspend disbelief!

I don't write for money, because when I've tried to second guess what might be popular, the result is dismal. I write because the stories are there, waiting to be told and there's enormous pleasure, almost addictive concentration in finding the exact words to tell them.

The snow! Just got back from a waitressing job (to fund the writing habit) driving into sheer white. Hope school is cancelled tomorrow, as I got my kids sledges for Christmas and they haven't used them yet!

Lol, Cherys.
There is a relatively simple explanation:
This year, for some reason, everyone in the family decided to give chocolates as Christmas presents. No idea why, but it meant we had an influx of boxes of Thorntons, Hotel Chocolate, Cadburys, Nestle, even the odd bar from Harrods, so it's taken us quite a while to get down to the last box, which, until now, had been hiding out in the potatoes cupboard.


- NaomiM

7am

Eight inches here in South East London, and all buses suspended. Two very happy children who can't get to school...

Emma

Thanks guys. Chatting to you here helps me to make sense of this writing lark!

Snow now looking lovely, but was up at 4.30 am to see partner off. He's driving from South Essex to Skelmsdale to deliver a proposal for a new contract for the company he works for. Typically his boss passed it to him and he's worked on it all weekend but if it's not delivered by end of play today the client rejects it. Worried sick but what can one do? He's very supportive of what I'm trying to achieve and he's a very dedicated employee. He's promised to stop if things get too bad but one can't help but worry

Still eating Christmas chocolate here too! Couldn't believe it but my two girls received 11 selection boxes each!. When I was a child (many moons ago) we got one selection box from Father Christmas. At this rate the Easter Bunny will be surplus to requirements!

I agree that what we do we do first and foremost for ourselves, be that for pleasure/driven to do it etc. When I was at art college I decided against a career as a commercial artist because I didn't want to be told what to draw or how to draw. In fact I found it really hard to hold down a NORMAL job because I didn't like being told what to do LOL! (take after my dad). Don't get me wrong, I'll do what's necessary to earn money for myself and my family, but I don't feel quilty that I want to earn money by doing what I'm best at.

Hope you have fun in the snow today. Will be online on and off throughout the day to take my mind off the travelling conditions But then that's what's great about WW's, I'm never alone!

Bev


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Typical. The girls want to venture out into the snow but I can't find the bloody camera.....