Ok, so I'm editing my book still and I just had a thought that might put a publisher off wanting to publish this book.

In the fantasy novel I write, one of the main characters is a fifteen year old boy from planet Earth, who gets teleported there for reasons he doesn't understand. Now, in the novel he talks in "Chav-speak" (don't know what else to call it. BTW, no offence to any chavs reading this). That is he says words a little differently. Examples.

"Nuffin" instead of "Nothing".

"Summit" instead of "Something".

And of course "Pete Tong" instead of "wrong" (which is actually rather humourous in a couple of context

I suddenly had a thought that maybe this could be a bad idea and might put a few publishers off (especially in the American market). Does anyone think I should correct this and take these kind of words out? I'm not sure if publishers might see these words and think "what does that mean?" But then, it is right for the character. Anyone got any advice?

So long as it's just in the dialogue you might get away with it - afterall, Dan Brown got away with a french policeman who sounds like Inspector Clouseau.
If you are submitting it to US agents, though, you might consider changing parts of it like 'Pete Tong'.

I agree that actual references might be tricky - unless it's very well-known old rhyming slang, I guess - but some vocabulary and variant spellings to show the accent are fine, though you need to be careful that it doesn't get too hard to read. The trick is to use enough spelling and vocabulary/syntax to get the reader to 'hear' the accent, but not actually make every word phonetic, because it's surprising how quickly it slows the reader down once they're doing a double-take at every fourth word. It's about information theory, really.

BTW

"Summit" instead of "Something".

I think I'd have this as 'summat', as it doesn't then read like the top of a mountain, which is what I did at first. Plus it's one we're all used to. There are, I guess, such things as standard variant spellings like this, and you're safer with summat, t'isn't, gimme, or wouldna and dinnae for a Scot say, and so on, than with things which have never been written that way ever.

But there's a lot of fine-tuning which might well change in the editing, but isn't going to be make-or-break at the earlier stages.

Emma

If you are submitting it to US agents, though, you might consider changing parts of it like 'Pete Tong'.

I always thought the US would know what "Pete Tong" means, but I guess that could be removed.

I think I'd have this as 'summat', as it doesn't then read like the top of a mountain,

I think that is a good point, I just used that because a friend of mine I MSN occassionally uses that. But I guess summat might be better.

Just wanted to add that some agents are tired of reading diaologue like this as it becomes outdated by the time your book might be published. Specifically, see the fourth post down on this agent blog http://www.greenhouseliterary.com/index.php/site/sarahs_blog/2008/08/ called 'Hotties and other beautiful people' (bummed me out a bit cos I love beautiful character, tee hee!). This is referring more to 'valley speak' but will give you an idea.

Loads of other blogs mention it too if you google ...

Equally, you need to take this stuff with a pinch of salt - just be careful to not over-do it.

Good luck, sounds like a cool premise for a book.

Thanks Trixie. I see your point about using things that are dated and I agree. Maybe I should rethink that.

Speaking of outdated language, it sort of reminds me of a Clockwork Orange, the book. Anyone ever tried reading that? I picked it up for the first time in ages and it's damn near impossible to read without the use of the "Drooge" dictionary at the back. Could you imagine someone trying to publish that now? I doubt it would ever see the light of day. lol

One of the joys of writing hist fic is that the slang can't date.

Personally, at the risk of sounding like an aged judge, I confess that I don't know what Pete Tong means. But then I spend most of my life in other centuries. One issue, of course, is that assuming it takes you a year or two from when you start writing it to (maybe, just maybe) getting a deal, and then a year to publication, the more faithful to a particular moment the slang is, the deader it'll be four years later when the paperback comes out.

Equally, you need to take this stuff with a pinch of salt - just be careful to not over-do it.

Agreed.

Emma


<Added>

A propos Burgess, I haven't read it, but I gather that Londonstani, being exquisitely faithful to a kind of English which is very, very non-standard, is genuinely quite difficult to read. Which is perhaps a good example of the difficulties of trying to find the right point between authenticity and readability. What you have to do, as with historical language, is find a 'seeming' authenticity which is in fact not as variant as the real thing.

I reckon that if I have to read something aloud to make sense of it, the author's gone too far down the variant road.

With regards to the Pete Tong thing, I do draw attention to it in the book. Like I said, this book is sent in a fantasy setting, but the main character is a human earthling. SO when he something like:

"It's all gone Pete Tong"

Then another character might say:

"Who is Pete Tong?"

Only THEN can he say that it means "wrong". That might be the only way round it. Then, to make it funnier, perhaps the characters that live in that world could start saying it along with him.


Of course, while we are on that note, the characters in the fantasy land do have their own words they say. Mainly for swearwords--it was the only way I could put swearing in my novel and still have the family enjoy reading them. If you ever watched the show Firefly, they do something similar.

Hello, just thought I would just quickly confirm that as a non-Brit, I have no idea what "Pete Tong" means!! Well, I mean, now I know, but I wouldn't have known if it hadn't been spelt out for me... hope that helps

Funnily enough, I didn't know what Pete Tong meant until a few years ago. I was doing a music course and pretty much every other person on the course was a either a DJ or into Dance type music. They'd often say things like "it's all gone Pete Tong" and things like that. Coming from a pretty sheltered life I didn't know what the hell they were talking about. But now I know.

God, I just thought, could you imagine if Spiderman went around saying "it's all gone Pete Tong". Now that would be funny!

It's All Gone a Bit Pete Tong is actually the title of a movie.

I don't know how these things work trans-Atlantically. My mini-novella is filled with hick-language and people over here seemed to get it. My novel has a few anglo-slangisms, and none of them have hit any problem in the States. Why not have a character ask your 'chav' what he means?

JB

Why not have a character ask your 'chav' what he means?

I do. There is a bit where he does say "it's all gone Pete Tong" and one of the characters ask him "Who is Pete Tong". However, I have kinda rewritten him to sound less of a chav (taking out the summit and nuffin bits as reading it through it looked a little bit crap and badly written). He still has the attitude of a teenager, but I've tried to make him less chavvy.

To be fair though, this section is such a small part of the novel and happens in only one instance, so I doubt it would affect the reading too much (I hope). I could always write those parts out if I decide to submit it overseas. I did at one point consider making my main character an American to fit in with their market. But as I've never lived in America, I don't know much about what life is like over there, other than what I see on films and TV, which is usually pretty stylized in my understanding.

I think 'it's all gone a bit Pete Tong' is pretty dated as a saying tbh - I remember it being around during my clubbing days which were longer ago than I'd like to admit...

This is the problem with using slang in a novel, it does date very quickly... and books are written and published very slowly...

I think there's a real art to write prose and dialogue which sound very collquial and slangy, while actually not being so bound to a particular date and place that they seem terribly wrong as soon as they're being read by people not of that date. It can be done, but it's a very elusive knack.

Or stick to history. What was slang in 1815 is still 1815 slang to us now...

Emma

Don't see any reason why not. Pullman does it with great effect in His Dark Materials.

The only thing I'd worry about (aside from people not understanding it!) is whether it'd date.

Nik