Hello,

Me again, but with a different grumble this time. The second agent to request my full manuscript has now rejected it and I’m now at the stage that I’m wondering how many full manuscript requests (and rejections) is normal (and when I should give up). I’m really keen to hear from people who’ve had full manuscript rejections - how many you’ve had and what they were like.

Basically, the first agent to request my full ms made a long(ish) list of the problems but said that they would re-read it once I had made some changes. I did so, and then got an editorial report in which the reviewer said that the problems no longer existed (and that he was really enthusiastic about the book). The agent then rejected the re-write.

The second agent to request (and reject) the full ms also came back with a long(ish) list of issues – a couple of which were the same as the first agent (and are things that I will work on) and some issues which were different from those identified by the first agent (and were actually things which the reviewer or first agent really liked).

I’ve decided to make some changes based on the things that have been mentioned more than once, but I am left with some doubts about the areas which have drawn mixed opinions. How much attention should I be paying to agent comments?

Thanks again,

Livi

There is a danger, livi, of constantly reworking a ms to try to please various agents, and in the end finding nothing meets their expectations.
My advice would be to keep the different versions separate and keep submitting the version you are most happy with, while you work on this other version for this current agent. Don't put all your eggs in one basket with this agent.


- NaomiM

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but, saying that, heavy editing is often one more hurdle the writer is forced to jump through to bring the ms up to that agent's personal tastes and to the point where they are then happy to champion it within the agency. - the emphasis being 'that agent's personal tastes'.

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...which is why you get the disparity between what the editorial agency and oher agents think will work, and what other agents want from it.

I think the test is whether a comment resonates with your own knowledge and experience of the book. If it's what someone called an 'Ahah!' comment, where you suddenly see they're right, even if you'd never thought if it before, then it's incredibly helpful. If you really feel that you'd only be changing it to please the agent, then I'd think very, very hard about doing that, until you're actually a client of theirs, and they're committed to trying to sell it for you.

And I agree that it can be dangerous to do lots of fiddling this way and that; even if you don't actually introduce muddles and inconsitencies, you can end up with something which, subliminally, reads a bit dogs-dinner-y. Certainly, as Naomi suggests, if you're doing anything radical I'd do it on a new copy of the file, so you can revert to the old one if it all falls apart on you. (Plus, if you end up feeling that some changes were for the good, and some not, you can get Word to compare the two versions, and pick your way through accepting and rejecting.)

Emma

Hello,

I had 8 rejections of my full before being taken on. Actually it might have been 9. But let's stick with 8 - it's all a blur of pain and misery Nah, only kidding - I almost got used to it after a while. Almost all of the rejections were the Didn't Love It Enough kind, so there wasn't a lot of rewriting between rejections, except when a very kind WW'er read it for me and made some excellent suggestions. There were a few criticisms, but they didn't really ring true with me so I decided to ignore them! Then came a list of suggestions which made a little light go ping inside my head. It was a rejection of sorts but an offer to read again if I could make certain changes to their satisfaction. Did that, met with them, signed a few weeks later. And it was as if I had to go through the pain barrier of all those full rejections to find the agent who really understood the book - and then that happened all over again with publishers until we found one who felt the same way.

Only make changes that make absolute sense to you. The way I saw it when I was approaching the rewrite was that even if the agent didn't take me on, I knew in my heart that the book would be better, and that was reason enough.

And just keep going!

Emily

The full ms of my children's novel was rejected 6 times before a publisher took it on (if you count partial submissions, it received about 15 rejections in all).

I'm currently subbing an adult novel. So far, four agents have requested the full and one got as far as a meeting and revisions (which were then rejected, although I honestly think the book is a lot better as a result). The others have rejected on the grounds of 'Didn't Love It Enough' (to use Emily's phrase), or not knowing where to place it (one of these was particularly gutting, as the agent really loved the book but - I think - was talked out of it on business grounds by a colleague). Partials are now sitting with half a dozen others, and a publisher.

I say, keep at it!

It's a hard one, Livi. I had a full rejected with 2 pages of suggested revisions which i more or less did - then got rejected again. In retrospect i ended up writing the book the agent wanted (more serious) and should have stuck to my own path (more light and fluffy). Who's to know at the time though, especially when you are desperate for an agent.

The whole things a learning process and i guess you just have to follow your instinct when the suggested changes are significant.

Sounds like you are doing so well though - good luck.

Well, with only two agent rejections on the full m/s I'd say you're way too early to lose heart! You've had some really good responses, such as the editorial report, so you're probably really nearly there! Hope you feel comforted by the other comments by writers who have had several more full m/s rejections than yourself and still won out in the end. Books are so subjective, and it really is a question of finding the right agent for you, one who really loves it.
Agents comments are always worth paying attention to, but my feeling is that you MUST agree to make the changes. Processing their suggestions does really help you decide what are the changes that will improve the book.
Mixed opinions are hilarious! I get those all the time - completely diametrically opposed suggestions. When it's from those in the industry I find it actually quite comforting, because it reinforces the fact that no-one really knows, even the experts - there isn't a right and wrong way, and your own opinion is as good as anyone's! And after all, you wrote it! You know how the story should go! I think Livi you've had enough good responses to have huge confidence in your abilities, so believe in your own instinct about the comments. (Sometimes you have to listen really hard to hear what your own instincts are! But they're there!)
ALl the very best to you with your next edits!
Love JC x

I only had one rejection of the full before being taken on, but seven or eight rejections of the partial. There's no rhyme or reason to these things, really - it's about finding the agent who clicks with your book. If you're at the stage of being asked for fulls, you're clearly batting in a decent league; a lot of writers never even get there. I do think you have to trust your own instinct when it comes to editing, although if several agents all started saying the same thing, then yes, there might well be something in it. I'd agree with Jane that it's far too early to give up - if I were you, I'd look through the manuscript carefully again, make any changes that leap out at you and then try another batch.

I only had one rejection of the full before being taken on, but seven or eight rejections of the partial. My rejection of the full just said that there was lots to like, but he hadn't felt totally gripped, so quite a personal thing really. Most of the partial rejections were standard and unhelpful. Looking back, I do think that I wasn't quite as targeted with my initial round of submissions as I could have been, and that some of the agents I had submitted to were unsuitable for the book. Have you done your research? - looking at the kind of authors the agency represents, etc?

There's often no rhyme or reason to these things - it's about finding the agent who clicks with your book. If you're at the stage of being asked for fulls, you're clearly batting in a decent league; a lot of writers never even get there. I do think you have to trust your own instinct when it comes to editing, although if several agents all started saying the same thing, then yes, there might well be something in it. I'd agree with Jane that it's far too early to give up - if I were you, I'd look through the manuscript carefully again, make any changes that leap out at you and then try another batch.

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Whoops - seem to have posted twice - my second post has more in it!

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...And just read your other thread and realised you're working on the research side of things!

I had three rejections of the full (and getting on for 30 rejections of the partial). They were all of the 'don't know where to place it' variety.

I stuck it in a drawer I'm afraid, so probably not encouraging, but that was partly because life got in the way. I still feel I may take it out again some day. You shouldn't give up yet, I think the response you have had so far is actually very promising (it just feels like having root canal work without anaesthetic).

Lots of luck,

Saturday

Once again, thanks for all your comments - loads of help as usual.

Looking back to a year ago, I can't believe how naive I was going into this. When I got my first request for a full ms, I thought 'brilliant - I'll be published by Christmas!' - how little I knew!

Hopefully, I'm a bit more mature now and much less excited (although comments on this thread have been really supportive, so I'm not ready to call it a day just yet!)

Livi

Livi, i was exactly the same. If i ever get a full requested again, i'll know to be pleased but realistic and remember it's just another step along the long rocky road to getting published.

Poor Livi! Your experience sounds even more frustrating than mine. The agent sent a full page of detailed comments, 99% of which were Aha! moments for me. Basically I'd put too much plot into it; she wanted it cut back, focused, more depth less width. All good stuff. I rewrote it over some months ande was convinced I'd cracked it. The agent sent it straight to her editor, who very quickly came back saying she didn't understand it, too much plot - all the same comments BUT she didn't "get" (her word) the things that the agent (her boss) said were "brilliantly done". It was, I think, a dumb-dumb test and I failed, resoundingly.

BUT.

I like the ms as I re-subbed it. I believe in it. So it's gone back out to a second agent who requested it in full. I don't anticipate an acceptance (this agent is stellar, out of my league I suspect) but I'm not as sick with nerves as I was the last time I subbed a first completed ms. Because of the extra work put in. And the conflicting feedback came from within the same agency!!

Keep at it. Edit what feels right, leave alone the rest. Keep sending it out there. And very best of luck.

Sarah

I know what you're going through..mine is an excruciating story, actually, close to ending...but the moral of the story seems to be...make changes to your novel with caution! In 2004, I finished my first novel and decided to look for an agent. It took me about a year to find one - I had two interested in the end and went with the one who suggested less revisions. The revisions he suggested were nevertheless fundamental and seemed to improve the book. I remember thinking I would definitely get published as I had two agents interested. It was sent out to UK publishers in 2005/2006 but didn't get anywhere despite some positive feedback over a six month period.

I never gave up on this book (especially after some encouraging feedback) and after a while reworked it in accordance with all the feedback and tried sending it out, but this time to other agents in USA. By this time, the novel had changed quite a lot as I was constantly trying to improve it and I had so many different versions (I rewrote the whole thing in past and present tenses and in first and omni!). A couple of US agents requested a full but ultimately rejected. I have now gone full circle and have reverted to the original pre-agent involvement version of 2004. It has taken me four years to realise that constant meddling with the plot/structure creates inconsistencies and hasn't necessarily created a better book. It's still unpublished and I'm working on other stuff. It's like a conundrum I've been trying to solve for the last four years. But I've become really cautious now of listening to feedback as agents tend to have differing opinions. Sometimes, I think I should have just kept sending out the same version lol.

Thanks for all your posts – I can’t believe what some of you have been through!

I’m so glad I started this thread because I can see now that my initial expectations were so unrealistic – thanks for your honesty. I wish you all the best of luck with your submissions.

This website has been really helpful because I’ve read so many interviews with published writers whose ‘official’ stories of how they got published go something like this – ‘sent it to an agent – she loved it – a week later it was with a publisher – they all loved it too – deal!’ Of course I’m not saying that this kind of thing never happens but I do wonder how much these stories are influenced by marketing and whether they actually give a realistic picture (or maybe these writers really are that brilliant!)

Anyway, thanks again – I am no longer alone!

Livi