The only reason I'm asking is because I've been approached by one to sell a copy of my fantasy book, and I know the bad press that surrounds subsidy publishing. However, doing some research into the company, they seem geninue and I haven't yet found any bad press on them. I've been talking to them for a long time and they seem geninue. They don't make any false promises on what they do and admit their are a subsidy publisher.

Is it really that bad, putting your own money up to publish a book? I think there quite possibly be some geninue subsidy publishers out there, but because of the bad press surrounding that genre, I think it sets the good ones in a bad light. I think if you do your homework on the company first and find out what they can do (if you can, talk to some of the authors that are on their books) and see what they say.

But of course, that's just my opinion. What does everyone else think? Are they and GOOD vanity press out there?

This is the first time I've heard vanity publishing referred to as 'subsidy-publishing' and to be honest, I much prefer the term, since vanity publishers have managed to get themselves an awful reputation over the years.
It's like endowment morgages that were sold in the 80's with impossible promises of huge final payouts with which people could buy yachts, go on Caribean hoilidays, and all that nonsense, when really they are just for covering the capital cost of the mortgage - and these days don't even do that.

Likewise, vanity publishers promise to get your book in the bookshops and on Amazon, as though that alone will guarantee sales. Instead they should insist the mss are properly edited before accepting them - but that is extra money which people are often not prepared to part with.
Anyway, that's my little rant over with.

As for self-publishing per se, I think it fills an essential niche - eg, for out of fashion genre novels, specialist non-fiction, novels that do not fit easily within a genre, memoirs, etc, - work that has a limited market, but where the writer knows a market exists, that they can tap into and recoup their costs.
Just don't think of it as a backdoor into the traditionally published book market, as that's a whole other ballgame.


- NaomiM

Good advice Naomi. I myself previous self-published (because I was unable to secure an agent or publisher) and I found it's actually not that bad. With the internet and everything, you can easily find people to buy your book, so long as you do all the hard work. I prefer to self publish myself because I love writing and enjoy every novel that I've written. Prehaps that's the way to go for someone like me. But who knows. I guess everyone is different.

so long as you do all the hard work.

That's exactly it, Dwriter. Whatever self-publisher one chooses, the only product is an ms in book format. Beyond that it's up to the author.
The only thing I'd add is if you choose a subsidy publisher who is going to handle distribution of your royalties, then make sure they are trustworthy.



- NaomiM

Then again, on one side of the coin, I guess self-publishing is cheaper in the long run (at least for starting up) when you use companies like lulu, whereas with subsidies you have to pay abour £3000, give or take. I dunno. The problem is, how can you tell if a company is trustworthy or not? They might seem geninue, but how are you able to be sure?

I guess I'm just paranoid. lol

It depends what you want to get out of it, Dwriter.
If you're looking for an end product that is professional-looking, then a subsidy-publisher is the way to go - just don't expect to make a profit, and make sure you know how & where you're going to sell the thousand-odd copies that will be cluttering up the back bedroom.
If, however, you just want to know what your novel will look like in book form, and think there maybe a small niche market for it, then POD publishing is the way to go.
If you're confident about your novel and your selling abilities, want to keep the unit costs down (£ per book), and want to do a GP Taylor/Shadowmancer, then a limited print run direct from a printer is the way to go. If you sell the majority of them you are likely to see a small profit on he deal. Although that would require a certain amount of desk-top-publishing savvy to keep the costs down.

- NaomiM

<Added>

how can you tell if a company is trustworthy or not?

First thing is to Google the name (Preditors and Editors website compiles a list of companies to avoid, although just because they are a vanity publisher doesn't make them all bad - I would class AuthorHouse as trustworthy, albeit expensive.
Secondly ask a copule of authors already published by the company. Some will probably have blogs/websites where you can drop them an email.

Funnily enough, I did actually once try to get in touch with GP Taylor. He gave me some really good advice about how to self-publish. Nice guy as well. The crux of it does come down to how much hard work you put into it, but if you succeed, the rewards are great.

Of course GP Taylor did have the advantage of some excellent marketing 'tools' - namely the fact he was a young vicar writing about black magic, and sold his bike to finance a reprint. Also, his book was childrens fiction, and, as I have found, it is far easier to sell direct to children and their parents, than online to adults.



- NaomiM

I wonder if any enterprising soul has set up a business as a copyeditor/designer for people who want to go the Lulu route (obviously at a cheaper rate than Lulu's own editor/designers). We had a presentation by Lulu locally and by the looks of it, it's perfectly possible to produce a very professional looking book - and much, much cheaper, I'd guess.
Susiex

We had a presentation by Lulu locally and by the looks of it, it's perfectly possible to produce a very professional looking book - and much, much cheaper, I'd guess.

I've used lulu before and the quality of the book is actually very good. I wouldn't see it out of place on a bookshelf to be honest.

So I'm interested, Dwriter, why you're going for a 'subsidy' publisher this time?
Susiex

Well, I'm not really "going" for it as such. I was just approached by them and figured it might be worth a go, but obviously with all the bad press they have, I had to check first.

Is there anything about them in the Directory here?
Susiex

All I found on them was "Subsidy Publishing" on this directory, but little else. That could mean that their either really good and no complaints, or that no ones ever heard of them before. As such, it could mean they aren't that great.

I was just approached by them

If it's a version of 'cold calling' then I would not go with a company that did that. If it got me interested in using a subsidy-publisher, then I would certainly look around and compare costs between companies. Usually they are not displayed on their websites, because there are a lot of things to factor in, such as paper grade, novel length, cover - so you have to ask for a quote. As a general rule of thumb, the cost of going via a subsidy-publisher is twice that of going direct to a printers, and around 50% of that cost is soley down to setting the lithographic cover.


- NaomiM

<Added>

and by "that" I mean cost of going direct to a printer.

<Added>

Another general rule of thumb (and these figures are going back a few years now):
£1000 might get you 500 paperback copies direct from a printer, or £1500 for 1000 copies.
£2000 would be the cost of those same 500 paperbacks from a vanity publisher, or £3000 for 1000 copies.
A vanity publisher will probably offer you a 'discount' for 2000 copies, but since the main cost is the lithographic cover which is already factored in in the inital 500 copies, it's a falsehood, since all they have to pay for is the extra paper, which is comparatively cheap. Also, you need to think long and hard how you are going to shift those 2000 copies which will be turning up on your doorstep - which is when POD publishing becomes a more attractive option.