I don't know how many of you think this is relevant but there has been debates on various other writing sites about workshops and teh concept of published.


some editors (Night Train, vestal review, NGF, Glimmertrain for starters) seem to suggest that work posted on a site that is not password protected ie anyone can walk in and read teh work, or is 'googleable', is published. Mark Budman of Vestal even goes as far as saying that those stories considered top 3 on Zoetrope, despite password protected, is published because of its vast potential readership. I don't automatically agree with him, however if an editor can google your work and find it online for free why should s/he pay for it or take up space in their magazine?

Personally I am also concerned about anyone coming in and helping themselves to your words and ideas. I know this is far-fetched but if something is accessible online you have no control over who views it - and then what they do with it -members of course are different. (especialy if the work is currently unpublished) I know work is copyrighted but it's so much hassle having to argue AFTER the event that this work is mine. I know people who have had their work filched in this way.

Just wondered what anyone thought.

I have thought about this, too.

Dealing with what is 'published' first, I think it is unfortunate that work we've posted for discussion might be considered 'published', as much of the reason for posting is to get feedback to help shape the piece into a publishable form.

But can't we just remove the piece from WriteWords if we submit to a magazine that would otherwise consider it published?

As to outsiders coming along and stealing our work, I have just hoped that no one would bother. So this really happens, then?

Ani

Google caches most pages for about 6 weeks. I know if you're part of a group here you can tick to have it open to the group only (Get Writing isn't like that for instance) which is great though limiting.


But that doesn't solve that some editors Do consider workshopped pieces, whther they can trace it or not, as being published. and on Zoetrope there are so many editors of lots of zines and things. (they say they don't post their work on zoetrope on the workshopped thing, saying they use private rooms small numbers) I think it's picking hairs but something we maybe need to think about?

But am I the only one to find (as a separate issue) that all our conversations here can be googled and read by anyone? ok call me paranoid but it is disconcerting. people ARE weird... you know...

I do know writers who have had their work stolen. It's quite unsettling..

I've googled our conversations, too. I thought it was rather fun! But Google won't find work if it is posted for WriteWords members only, and that includes feedback.

My concern, so far as the security of work is concerned, is the free trial memberships. Someone can come in under one name after another and just ghost the site. We don't know what they're doing. Or taking!

Ani

Hi - just thought I'd barge my way into your conversation ladies!

I feel the copyright thing is a bit of a catch 22, and really there is no option but to get your stuff out there and risk it. I never shut off my stuff to anyone on this site unless I think its a bit rubbish and therefore embarrassing. I don't know for sure that posting on here is as good a proof of copyright as anything, but I do know the old "owner copyright" chestnut. If there is one thing WW has taught me, its that I can improve and develop as a writer through practice and taking advice from those that are clearly more knowledgable. I have a novel finished in a 1st draft, but through the help of a certain esteemed WW member, realised it was way off finished. As it is my "thing", which I started in 2001, I haven't posted a stitch of it up on here, so as not to take the risk, instead I develop things that I feel will enhance my style. What I'm driving at is the style and "talent" will be what sees you through, rather than one novel or poem or whatever. If someone rips off my Nazi Zombie story then I think I'll know, and have enough backing from WW to claim it as mine. I can prove it from the date of my postings and the comments received. How much more proof is required?

Its like music. If you were in a band but didn't want to play your songs in public you'd get no where.

I think you're right J, but you just have to risk it. There are nutters and con merchants and people with zilch talent who have to rip others off. But what is the other option? To leave WW or never post anything?

Power to the writer - don't worry, if it comes down to it, I'll be your witness!

Luv


Dav

Work on the internet is published, regardless of whether or not the audience is restricted. If you're expecting to submit something for paper publishing, don't leave it hanging around on the internet, and you'll never encounter a problem.

Dav

The likes of your Nazi Zombie Flesh Eating Bad German People in Helmets that Dont Play Football story is so individual that, you're right, you'd know if it was plagiarized. So get your hard copy chapters and synopsis and put them in the bank - it'll cost you 15 quid a year for them to hold it and it you ever see it in print anywhere, in any form, you got the proof that that idea (and mab even exact wordings of paragraphs and stuff)is yours. But I suppose that's when the tough bit starts, but a least you got back up if you want to go through all the litigation shit.

It's difficult if your posting poems etc but for a main, individual topic of a novel, you can cover your arse.

Poitin,Pastis & Pasties

Dave

I'll have a pasty tonight!

We have pasties most Friday nights because we go down to the Lizard, where Ann's Famous Pasties is located.

But I digress.

Oh Anne man!

Is that where they all dress in green and yellow? (Or am I thinking of the 'Yes You Can' girl? Anyway the Real Cornish Pastie holds its steaming,tasty flavour (and substantial belly-pack) up to any countries' culinary delights. It's a nose-pack to savour - and I am very jealous that I can't have one now.

Dave

We’ve had this discussion before but it was a while ago. I think the view we came up with then was that WW is an on-line equivalent of going to a writers’ group. You submit your work for feedback and comment. It is not published.

And if you’re worried about someone stealing your work, copyright it.

Dee
x

Dee,

I know the logic of the situation but it's not us here who make the decision. If a magazine considers it published - shouldn't we be aware of that?

as to copyright - personally i prefer to block the horses door before it's bolted. Ie I'd rather NOT be in a position where it's possible for someone to filch. why run the risk?

lock... not bolt!