Hi There
I finished my first novel Ghostport, (a rip roaring adventure/horror story for older children) about two years ago, having written it in a year. Except I didn't really finish. Oh yes I had sixty thousand plus words, a beginning middle and end, all of my characters seemed to have satisfactory arcs. I knew a rewrite was required, of course, to iron out a few creases here and there, not least the spelling and punctuation, but overall I was happy.

A second draft did correct some of the grammatical errors, (though not all I'm sure) and much to my amazement, (I was naive) it also served to improve on the first pass, by beefing the plot and characterisation up, and also revealing parts that were not required or did not make sense.

So, two drafts down - job done. Nope, a third draft followed. Again the draft helped to tighten parts and generally burr off a few more rough edges, but it still did not feel truly finished. And that is where things have been left, three years, three drafts and I am still tinkering and toiling away, I guess on a fourth draft. The reason, I think, is because I just cannot tell if I have really finished yet, which is why I am here.

So, how can you tell when no more rewriting/editing/tinkering can make your MS any better than it is, or isn't. When do you stop and move on?

Thanks

Kris

Tinkering and toiling can go on forever and not necessarily for the better and there are always pesky little typos that get missed time and time again. It is helpful to have a fresh eye cast over it - so you might consider uploading extracts from your opening chapters on Writewords for feedback and a final polish. At the very least, have one last trawl through for typos and grammatical errors - but try to refrain from rewriting, because that just generates more typos. Then start submitting to Agents. If it's accepted there will be another round of tinkering and toiling, but this time under the guidance of an editor.


- NaomiM

Hi There
Thankyou - I am looking to join a group and will post a chapter or two.

Kris

I think Naomi's quite right: it's what kind of work you're now doing on it that's the key. If it's tinkering, STOP. If it's serious work, then you're probably right that it needs it.

You may find that other people's eyes - or your own, after one last break from it - do highlight something that really does need revising, but tinkering won't make the difference between a book an agent will turn down and one they'll accept. And as Naomi says, you can just introduce more muddles

This blog post might amuse you, if you're thinking about this question:

http://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/2008/07/fiddling-hangovers-and-the-paris-review.html

And welcome to WW

Emma

Hi There
You describe perfectly the agony of tinkering and how it is easy to tie yourself up in knots by doing it too much.

I especially like the advise about printing a hard copy - I will do this, and also about tinkering with a purpose ie concentrating on one character, or one chapter.

Thanks

Kris

One thing to look out for are 'summaries', especially in the opening chapters, where you are 'telling' chunks of story so as to quickly move the plot forward. These may need to be expanded into scenes or vignettes, to change the 'tell' to a 'show'.

- NaomiM

<Added>

...and before we get into one of our usual WW arguments about showing v's telling, I'm specifically referring to summary paragraphs used to 'quickly move the plot forward', which are often first draft shorthand which we always mean to come back to, eg, to flesh out our MC, or the location, etc, but forget to do in the heat of the moment so they stay there as a little sketch, forgotten and overlooked, because by now we know the character or the location so well we don't see any point in fleshing it out for the reader.

Sooooo true. One of the things I most often find myself writing in editorial reports is along the lines of 'I think it's because you know this character/place/idea so well that you only need the tiniest of things to trigger a lot. But the reader doesn't, and needs more...'

Emma

For me, it's three drafts and a little tinkering. After that, if I have not got it to a point that it's ready to let people see, I'm not doing my job properly.

Letting go of your work is (for me) the hardest thing. I HATE that moment when you decide that you've got to let another person see just what you've been up to for the last 12 months, but if I'm not at that point by the time I've gone through the above number of reworks, I might as well chuck the towel in.

Welcome to WW Kristian.

Steve

Thanks All.

I have decided to re-read, rather than re-write - with perhaps a bear minimum amount of tinkering, (I just can't help myself); I will then start my new project.

I will post a chapter soon too, once I have joined a group, and then who knows maybe I'll attempt to put together a submission package.

Kris

Hi Kris, and welcome to WW. You seem to have all the right ingredients - the stamina to complete a work of length, the self awareness to realise first drafts aren't brilliant, and the work ethic to graft and redraft.

Time for one of three things:

1) post a sample on here. This won't get a response on your idea, but you will get an idea of the standard of your writing skill. This is something a lot of new writers forget to address because family and friends usually don't have the know-how to comment on those things, and there are so many other things to juggle when you're planning and writing a novel.
2) send it out! - hit about eight to ten agents and see what reaction you get. The more that reject you, the more you realise you really need to rework, whereas if one rejects it, the reader for that agency might not like your style, be having a bad day, or be short of time. So send multiple submissions. The other end of the scale is you get multiple requests for the full script, so you know you're doing something right!
3) forget about it and start a new project. This sounds like quitting, but it's advice that comes from up high (Stephen King for one). Sometimes you need a good long break from a work in progress to allow you to see it with fresh eyes, and judge objectively where the weak points are. This is impossible if it's all fresh and sparkly and new.

My gut feeling is that you seem to think there is something missing from the novel. In which case, try 1 anyway, and then move onto 3. There is a number 4 of course, which is sending it out to an editorial agency, which will cost you an arm and leg and probably tell you the things you already suspect. Best to use them when you are convinced it's finished and know you can't move on without professional help.

Best wishes,

Colin M
(one of the great unpublished too )

Hi Colin
Thanks, that is most helpful. I have taken the plunge and joined the YA group, and just posted Chapter 1 of Ghost Port, and depending how I get on I may well try point number 2 too.

Once I am done with my re-read I will start the new project, it's long overdue.

Kris