I know of at least on WW member who believes there is another way to go about getting published, which in short is a long term plan of small steps. Rather than go straight into a novel, you can earn your stripes with short stories and articles to fanzines, ezines, even if the payment is zero, and build up a fan base and experience. I mentioned this to my agent, just to see what her feelings were to building up small and steady, when I know that publishers like to have someone unheard of - a true debut author. She seemed to think it was a good idea, but as I write for children and teens, there aren't the same outlets that there are for horror and sci-fi writers. She suggested YouWriteOn, so I guess work on that site, or successful work on that site, has some impact on agents and editors.

Anyone on here use it? Is it any good? Secure? Is fiction posted on YouWriteOn classed as published (we're assured that in here, so long as you click Members Only, it isn't)

Any views welcome.

Colin M

<Added>

doh - meant to say "at least one member"

I don't really see how YouWriteOn would help you build up a fan base, Colin.
Surely the best places to start would be by posting your work on Bebo and Facebook, where the young readers hang out.

- NaomiM

<Added>

And for a fan base you are aiming for thousands if not tens of thousands of readers. On YouWriteOn you'll be lucky to have a few dozen purely because of the way it's set up as a critiquing site for fellow writers, rather than a site for readers.

You mean there's a use for Facebook?

I wasn't particularly thinking of a fanbase, just wondering if it really did have any kind of impact towards publishers. I'm not really sure how that site works. I suppose there's one way to find out, but if I spend anymore time on the internet I won't get ANY writing done!

I think it can be extremely helpful to you as a writer to get some experience of writing stories and non-fiction for mags and so on, whether they're online or print, and the online version can be easier to get into.

But virtually all of it is completely below the booktrade's radar: I suspect that most (many?) agents/editors have no idea of which are the good ezines which say something about the quality of your writing, and which aren't, and either way assume the readership is negligible (I'm not saying they're right about that, simply that that's how many of them see it). It's always worth putting in anything which says (as Miss Snark puts it) that someone other than your mother thinks you can write, but as Naomi says it would be hard to demonstrate that you have a fanbase in numbers that would improve your marketability as an author. And they certainly wouldn't think of you as not being a debut author however brilliant and numerous the pieces you'd had in respected e-zines, because they really only think in terms of full-length, printed books.

Emma

This is a very interesting question and one which I suspect may well poke at all kinds of subconscious resistances in writers to veer from the traditional perception that the way to get ahead in fiction is by writing novels and submitting them to agents or publishers. Speaking in general, and stretching towards extremes for clarity, I'd say children's publishing in the UK on the whole tends to adhere to the traditional model. However, speculative fiction (SF/fantasy/horror) provides many more options, so much so that I think it's fair to say the division between publication in an ezine to getting a book contract with Baen, say, is now less of a barrier (of perception about what makes a 'proper' writer) as a steady slope. Speculative editors at top book publishers do read the magazines and take note of who's making a noise in them, and do contact authors to ask if they have a novel they want to show. Some are both magazine and book editors in any case; so they certainly do know which are the good magazines and ezines. Just one example: Kelly Link edits Lady Churchill's Rosebud Wristlet, which while low-paying is a highly respected magazine. Link is also an founder/editor at the highly-respected book publisher, Small Beer Press. So, all sorts of inter-related opportunities present themselves in that scenario (not that it's necessarily easy to get a story in LCRW - the quality is high and competition fierce). Interestingly, Link herself is also a writer and came up through the magazine route, now writing YA novels.

Also, some speculative fiction podcast novelists are beginning to take their work from what is in effect a self-publishing medium to the mainstream, via big publishers noting the buzz and offering them contracts for a traditional hard copy book which then gets bought by many of the people who've already downloaded it for free, plus new readers.

Now, it could be argued that these models work in speculative fiction because that genre has a big, techno-savvy, dedicated fan base. However, what's interesting is that in the US (not so much here yet), speculative fiction authors are beginning to do very well in the YA (and to a lesser extent children's) book markets. They have come up through the magazine/anthology route, then move on to writing novels, taking their fanbase with them and adding new readers through their own and the publishers' promotion. Some have then written YA books which again take much of their existing readership with them, and add new readers, again due to the publisher's and their own marketing. Of course, it helps that most kids are well tuned to modes such as podcasting, and are particularly drawn to YA novels which feature modern technology (although YA fantasy is also doing well, probably due to the success of Potter and Dark Materials, etc).

Terry

I'm on YWO but purely in the interests of getting feedback for my book. It can be seen by everyone on the net I think, which is a bad thing.
I'd use Facebook and bebo if I were you. There are a lot of us on FB, and many promoting their books.

Having it on show to the world is a slight concern, but only slight. I do like the privacy that WW offers. One thing I do believe is that posting finalised work can't be a bad thing. It worked for, rather than against, the music industry, despite what people initially feared. Some bands have given their albums away for free, or asked downloaders to pay what they feel is a reasonable fee - total honour system. Actually, this system was used several years before by Stephen King, who got narked at his publishers for taking too big a chunk of the profits and pricing books too high.

I paid 1p for my copy of Mothernight! That's how much Snowbooks were charging for the proof copies. Sounds like a cheap offer, but I ended reading a book I normally wouldn't buy, liked it, and will most likely pay the full price for Sarah's second novel.