Hi guys,

I ma nearing the end of my novel and am beginning to consider whether I should use the services of a Writing Advisory Service such as Hilary Johnson.

Has anyone had any direct experience of using such services and did they find them worthwhile? Also, what sort of costs are involved (my novel will be coming in at around 70,000.

Any advice would be greatly received.

Thanks as always

Eve
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Hi

I haven't had any direct experience, but I noticed this thread

http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/48_224480.asp

which might give you the answers you are after.

I think most places will be able to give you a quote depending on how big the MS is and how detailed a response you want, but like I say, I have no experience. Someone more in the know will be along shortly.

Jenn

Hi Eve -
I've just sent my submission package to the Hilary Johnson Agency (15,000 words + synopsis + cover letter). It cost £120 and I was really happy with the result. Seven single-spaced pages of comment and feedback and suggestions, and a reader who clearly entered into what I was writing. It was all very constructive. I believe HJ tends to prefer the more commercial end of writing, BTW. I've sent her an email asking how much it would be for the same reader to read my whole manuscript, but haven't yet heard. Others that have been recommended here are The Writer's Workshop (our own Emma D does reports for them, but obviously wouldn't do a WW member's) and Cornerstones. Writers Workshop quoted me £465 for 90,000 words.
Susiex

eve26, if you search under 'editorial services' you should turn up not only the thread that ladyblackbird linked to, but earlier ones as well.

wouldn't do a WW member's

On a point of information, I have done WW members, but obviously I don't say so on the forums a) because I always leave it up to the writer whether they want to acknowledge my help or not, and b) I'm very careful not to look as if I'm touting for business: that's not why I belong to WW.

And I think I haven't seen you around before, eve, so welcome to WW!

Emma

oops, sorry Emma!
Susiex

Thanks everyone

So difficult to know what to do. Think I will try a few agents first and then may consider these services if it looks as though they might be beneficial - having just had a baby, money is pretty tight!

I only have two chapters left to write. Why did nobody tell me that the last few chapters were the hardest?? I find myself doing anything to avoid writing, even watching Big Brother...HELP!!

Though seriously - thanks for your advice

x

Eve I would suggest holding off from using an editorial service until after you have submitted the ms to a couple of dozen agents. If & when you come to use a editorial agency, it can help if you know what it is you want from them. Any feedback you get from agents will help you to ask the right questions from an editorial agency.


- NaomiM

<Added>

I've just seen that you mention you have not yet finished it. Do not send an editorial agency your first draft. Make sure it is as polished as the one you would send to an Agent - which is why I recommend sending it to them after you have submitted to Agents.

Do not send an editorial agency your first draft.

Yes, I'd certainly agree with this, because the editor will spend time on things that you'd have spotted anyway - rather like not workshopping a first draft because your group will spend the whole time pointing out typos you would have seen.

I tend to think that the time to use an editorial service (or indeed take a course or any kind of expensive feedback) is when you've got it as good as you possibly can on your own - re-written and revised and put away, and got out, and revised again. You may know, instinctively, that it could be better, but you're beginning to think, 'But I don't know how to make it any better: it needs someone else's eye now.'

You may reach that stage before you send it out at all, or you may not till after it's been rejected a few times, as Naomi suggests, either with no feedback (most usually), or with feedback (pat yourself on the back) that you don't know how to turn into actual revisions.

Two reasons for not sending it out earlier: one the above - why have an editor spend time on what you'd have spotted anyway? And two, the better you know the book, and how you work as a writer, and what you're wanting it to be, the more useful the report will be: you'll understand what they're saying about what doesn't work, you'll know if you agree, and you'll have a better idea of what to do about it if you do, and whether their suggestions for solutions are the right ones.

The last thing I'd say is that the more you can tell the agency about what you're looking for in a report, including any feedback you've had from rejections or whatever, the more likely you are to get a report which concentrates on the things that help you most.

Emma

<Added>

Last thought is that sometimes people yearn for an editorial report - and it is expensive - or can't resist sending their work out to agents before it's ready, because really what they want is to feel that the book's being heard at last. That is indeed one of the functions of the editorial services - it's probably the most detailed read that anyone will ever give most of those books. But, again, it may be that you can get that buzz of communicating by some other, cheaper means, by posting on WW, or joining a writer's circle, or whatever, while you spend longer than you'd believe possible revising it. I sometimes think that if you're not bored to tears by your book before you send it out, you haven't done enough work.

<Added>

no probs, SusieAngela!

Hi Eve,

I used an editorial service for my first novel and had a negative experience. The report was damning with virtually no suggestions for how to improve. It just said that I would do better to start again. This was in stark contrast to all the other people who read it at that time, but I was hugely discouraged and didn't write much for about a year.

I have now finished novel two, and might use an editorial service again, once I've improved it as much as I possibly can. If I use such a service, it will be with extreme caution.

One thing I learnt was to research the editor that is going to read your story. After my experience, I bought a book written by the editor. I found it as boring as he found mine. There was absolutely no overlap in our taste. It was a mistake to just send it off and hope for some useful feedback.

If you use a service I think it's essential that you are on more or less the same planet as the editor. There were aspects of lifestyle that we clashed on. For example, one of my characters made some mordant remarks about Oxfordshire (views that I don't personally hold), but the editor objected to these because he lives in that county.

For many reasons, I believe I chose the wrong person. That doesn't mean that the novel was any good, just that this editor was not the right person to help me improve it or improve as a writer. It's like any coaching relationship.

So, if you do try it, I hope you have a really positive experience. I know it has worked for many people here.

Rod.

I din't use one either because a. I'm too mean and b. whatever anyone suggested I knew I wouldn't start a whole reworking exercise on the thing- I was just too bored with it.
That said, a mate of mine got some lovely positive feedback from The Literary Consultancy and he did incorporate their suggestions.
I guess it depends what you want to achieve from it.
HB x

I've never considered it before because I did an MA (a lot more expensive) but I started the MA with almost a complete draft of my novel and a very clear idea of what I wanted to get out of the course. I don't know for certain, but I do think I got a little bit more out of the time there than some of the other students who came with a plan and wrote their novels during the course.

So I suppose I am just seconding what Emma has said - it might be better to get it as finished as you can (which might mean two or three more drafts, until you've no idea what else you can do to improve it) before you send it out to someone else.

If you've spent a lot of time with it and you're clear in your own mind about what you are aiming for, it stands to reason that you'd be better placed to ask pertinent questions of your editor, tell them what you want them to pay attention to, and ignore any feedback that for whatever reason, just doesn't fit right for you. I don't know about you, but for me I didn't get to that stage with my novel until I was half way through the second draft and eighteen months into working on it.

Good luck

Jenn

I started the MA with almost a complete draft of my novel and a very clear idea of what I wanted to get out of the course. I don't know for certain, but I do think I got a little bit more out of the time there than some of the other students who came with a plan and wrote their novels during the course.

I think this is an interesting point. I wrote my novel during my MPhil, but that was the structure of the course, unlike an MA (though the MAs vary hugely in how flexible they are). But I wouldn't have done that course if I hadn't already written several novels; I'm amazed by the bravery of people writing their first novel for a PhD - I think I'd feel horribly at sea. I did the MPhil because I felt I'd gone as far as I could on my own, and was only getting rejections. If I hadn't got onto the course, my fallback was going to be getting an editorial service report.

Emma

I was very happy with my report from Cornerstones on my second book, learnt a lot.

An agent who's just rejected my 3rd book, though, on the grounds that my writing is fine, it's the story that's not marketable, has advised me not to spend money on an editorial report, and instead just get on with the next book. So, you need to think about your reasons for using one of these agencies. But i'm certainly glad i've done it once and might do it again.(I'm not saying my writing is fine, BTW, i probably could still learn loads from a report!)

HJ has just quoted me £332.50 for a 95,000 word novel - that's £3.50 per 1000 words. She's also said the same reader will look at it as looked at my submission package and, even though the original stuff will need reconsidering in light of the whole, will knock off £100 - so £232.50. I'm not going to do it until I've submitted to some agents, but will definitely do it if I just get standard rejections.
Casey, that's great news. You know you have the technical skills and ability - now you only have to come up with the right plot! (Or, as we've said on the other thread, it may that it's all good anyway and the other agent will love it.)
Susiex

Thanks, Susie

That price from HJ sounds very, very reasonable. I think you are doing the right thing, though - i sent out a handful of subs before getting my report and went ahead after i'd collected the rejections.

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