Hi everyone
I'm licking my wounds a bit today because for the second time I've had an agent say they really liked my M/S but just not quite enough to take me on.
This last experience is particularly bruising because the agent in question emailed me last week to say her reader really likes it a lot and she never disagrees with her so I could 'expect the best' - (yep, cruel isn't it) so I've been in an agony of anticipation, only to be told it is 'very very good indeed' but unless I'm already known it wouldn't get me a publisher. I'm thinking of forking out for one of those professional reading services now and wondered if anyone else had been though this or knew whether they were worth going for....
Painful business, innit?
thanks!
C

Caroline, welcome to WW.

I had a novel edited by http://www.jbwb.co.uk

She picked up on a few general faults that ran through all my writing so it was well worth the money.

But, in my opinion, the best thing you can do is upload some of your ms on here and invite a whole range of opinions. It’s invaluable.

Dee.

Caroline,
You've done really well to get that much interest in my opinion. I only ever had the standard rejections letters with my (now scrapped) book. Terry Edge (from this site) looked at my stuff and he is extremely thorough. He gave me some really excellent advice and although it stung a bit at first I can honestly say my writing has improved as a result. I'm not more focussed and concise.
Sue

Caroline,

First of all, bad luck with the agent. That was very unprofessional of her, to give you a 'good news' call only to retract it later. It sounds a very strange rejection reason, too: that you're not well known enough to get published. Why didn't she tell you this up-front? Generally, it's worth bearing in mind that agents will tend to make nice-ish comments in rejection letters simply because their experience is that if they say anything specific, authors tend to come back and argue about it.

Regarding reviewers, as with everything there are good and bad. As Sue kindly said, I tend to be very thorough, going into the big picture elements of a novel and the close-in details too, since the macro and the micro obviously affect one another. I'm also very honest (while stressing that it's my opinion only), since I believe that's what writers actually want. I do see manuscripts that include other reports the writer's commissioned and I'm often appalled at how flimsy they are and how falsely positive (which of course can make my job harder). In reviewing, I believe I have a duty to help the writer in the direction of good writing, in that no one can guarantee what will or will not be published. What do I think is good writing? Basically, it's a story that grips and compels from the first line to the last page, is full of characters the reader cares about, and which flows so well the reader believes the story just fell on to the page with absolutely no effort on the writer's part. And, although some people on this site might argue, I believe a thorough grasp on the technical side of writing is essential if a story is to really sing in this way.

I agree with Dee that the feed-back you'll receive from Writewords people can be invaluable. However, it won't tend to be as incisive as you might need, partly because the site is basically positive and supportive, partly because there are space/time restrictions, and partly because not everyone has the technical experience to see what works and what doesn't, and why. I've just had my latest novel reviewed by a writer/editor friend and would not expect her to put in such an amount of work, thought and effort for free. As it is, her comments will help tremendously with the re-write, and many of them are technical points that her experience can spot but which perhaps would not be noticed in a more public domain.

If you write to me via Writewords internal email, I'll be happy to give you my views on some good (and bad) reviewers, but I'm reluctant to do so publicly for obvious reasons.

Best of luck with your book.


Terry

Thanks very much for that, Terry. Could you just tell me how the internal email is accessed? I can't see how to do it!
C

Caroline, click on Terry's username at the top of his message. That will take you to his profile. Click on 'send WWmail' and you're off.

Dee.

Haven't had a chance to get on here for a while but just wanted to offer an update on this issue of paid criticism.
I ended up using an agency called Cornerstones (www.cornerstones.co.uk) to look at my ms and I think it has been the best money I've ever spent! I always imagined an agent who thought something was promising would then offer up a detailed critique, suggesting what needed to be done. I think now this probably doesn't happen that much (when you think about, how could they possibly have time? Unless something was very obviously a huge bestseller in the making). Anyway, Cornerstones gave me exactly what I was looking for with the result that I'm very excited about editing the book again. They were extremely positive, which has had the added advantage of boosting my flagging confidence. It was a lot of money - about £300 - but I really think it was worth every penny if you are looking for comments on a whole book. Once I have worked some of the new stuff up, I'll post it here.
Thanks!

I had (kind) a rejection from an agent that suggested an editorial agency (Cornerstones) as they didn't have time to give feedback. Increasingly I read that editors/agents don't have time to work on rough diamonds, which means that increasingly, if we want to compete on a level playing field, there will come a time it's de rigeur to pay for professional editing before submitting.

I agree that you can get loads of valuable feedback on this site, especially as you get the opinions of so many people, whereas a paid critique will be the opinion of only one person; but having said that, as Terry says, that person will have skills and time we don't. I'm just about to submit a novel for paid critique and, while I'm far from rolling in money, I'm prepared to do it as I think of it as a career investment, as I would money spent on any vocational course. I'm hoping not just to make that novel more publishable, but also to see what I do well, and where I need to improve, for future reference. I could, perhaps, get that from a creative writing course, but this way I get it "on the job".

Take care
Andrea

PS Caroline, that is one brutal experience you had

Thanks, Anj, for your comments. It has all been quite a bruising experience, but then if I'm serious (which I am, very) about all this, it's bound to have some pain involved!
Best of luck with your own submission. Let me know how you get on?
Cornerstones say you should wait for at least a month before working on your ms again, just to let the advice kind of percolate.....But I think I'll bite the bullet and post some of the re-worked stuff on here when I have something.
best
Caroline

Caroline, take heart.

Snowbooks sent me an email telling me they 'really enjoyed' my sample chapters and found it 'exciting' and 'very very good'. The editor said she'd get bnack to me by the end of the week, and of course, I was thrilled.

They then sent a standard rejection email stating the story 'didn't suit them.'

keep plugging away and you will get there. Their comments are encouraging, and at the end of the day, compliments from agents and publishers are like gold dust.

JB

Caroline,

I'm glad you had a good result with Cornerstones. I do critiques for them (as well as free-lance too). All their reviewers (on the children's side at least) are either published authors or editors/agents. You're right that an agent does not have time to write detailed critiques, even of promising work. For me, any new writer should get their work professionally critiqued, for the simple reason that it will definitely need it (I've never critiqued a manuscript that didn't need a lot of work, even the really promising ones). The reasons for this are: 1) we don't get taught how to write professionally at school, 2) any writer is blind to their weak points and needs an objective view of their work, and 3) writing and editing are different skills – and where it's true that there is much to learn about writing, there is even more to learn about (self-)editing.

Terry

P.S. You really should take a break before re-writing. You need to give yourself time to absorb the big-picture comments you received. If you plough straight back into the text, these will get forgotten, believe me. I've seen this happen so many times, and it's often the author actually avoiding the main points - burrowing into short-term activity in order to keep out the lessons that could lead to long-term changes in his/her approach.

I read a bit of an eye-opener on one of the interviews here last night - advice from a publisher (I think he was, might have been an agent) was not to send your work out too early. He said that published books have been through 10 or 15 edits.

And there was me thinking I'd been good getting to a fourth draft.

Which makes a professional edit seem even more necessary.

Thanks for all those comments, everyone. I agree that I have to wait a bit and let the advice really sink in. I suppose there is a silly fear deep down that someone will write the same book (yes, I know, ridiculous!) before me, which makes me want to rush. But I will resist!
And I'm definitely going to post something once I've got it.... even though the thought makes my heart beat a little faster - and not in a good way :-)
C

I feel for you there - awful isn't it, when your hopes are raised like that.
But hey - we'll get there in the end. Maybe these will be anecdotes we'll enjoy telling one day!
best
C

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(meant to say, this was aimed at waxlyrical.)