I've been given the opportunity of a one-to-one with an agent who's been reading my MS and concluded, "Your writing is wonderful, and your characters really do come alive, but there are too many problems around plotting and structure to feel that we could successfully represent you".

I have a week's grace while the agent is on holiday, before we discuss the rejection in detail, and I'm trying to formulate a good strategy for getting the most from this opportunity. Obviously, a big part is just listening to everything she has to say, but I also want to ask intelligent questions. Most of all, I want to see if there's a reasonable chance that I can put the problems right and, if so, whether she'd take another look at the MS when it's done.

I'm toying with the idea of asking her whether I should consider using a professional editor to help me overcome the plotting/structure issues. But would this look like an admission of defeat on my part? Right now I do feel a little defeated, not to say stymied, by this plotting/structure monster. But is it dangerous to confess to that? Ought a good, publishable writer have these skills or at least the potential to develop/refine them? Am I being fanciful to imagine that the invitation to discuss the problems with her in person hints that she hopes I can develop these skills, put right the problems with the MS under my own steam with the right steer from her?

I know it's impossible to second-guess at this stage, but if anyone has advice on how best I can demonstrate my commitment and stamina, by the asking/not asking of various questions, please help me out. Thank you!

I'm toying with the idea of asking her whether I should consider using a professional editor to help me overcome the plotting/structure issues. But would this look like an admission of defeat on my part?

No. Go for it. If there's one thing I see over and over again it's problems with structure. I suspect it's a very common reason for a lot of ms to ultimately be rejected, once Agents get past the 15 seconds 'can they write?' question that they must ask of 95% of their slush pile. To be given an affirmation that you can write, pulls you into that top 5% group with the potential to make it, which is great news.


- NaomiM

Thanks, Naomi, that's very helpful. Would it be a naive follow-up question to ask the agent if she could recommend an editor? Or would she only know of/work with editors within publishers, as opposed to freelancers?

Tiger

This sounds really positive to me. We are always being told how horrifically busy agents are so if one is willing to spare you some time like this she must see potential in your work. I'm not on the inside of the publishing industry but from the outside your suggestion about an editor sounds incredibly sensible & pro-active - surely it couldn't do any harm?

Lots of luck,

Saturday

Thanks, Saturday, yes I think I've caught a lucky break here. A rejection, but with a silver(ish) lining.

Tiger

I wouldn't worry too much about asking/not asking the right questions.

1) she is clearly interested if she is prepared to discuss the rejection with you.

2) By showing you are prepared to rewrite you are showing your dedication and i'd certainly ask if she can recommend someone to help - what's the worst she can say? 'Er, no.' - she's still going to be impressed by your keeness to sort the plotting problem out.

I certainly wouldn't be afraid of owning up to what you think are your weak areas, as long as you show a willingness to put them right.

Like you say, listening is going to be the most important thing and finding out exactly which parts of the plot and structure she thinks are the problem - the overall arc? The structure of each chapter? How each chapter relates to the other and whether the narrative drive and pace have got something to do with the problem areas...

I'm sure she'd be prepared to read it again.

The agent who's read my full twice felt there was just too much work still to be done, but said she'd read it yet again if i got an editorial report done.

This is an opposite opinion, Tiger, and one that you might not agree with. I think that structural/ deep-seated plotting problems are the hardest to solve and I suspect that no matter how much work you put into this novel you won't turn it around completely (if that's what it needs)
On the positive side I would take a lot of encouragement from the fact that she thinks your writing is great and that she is investing so much time in talking to you about the novel. I think this probably means that she thinks you have talent but that this is not the novel that you'll break through with. Personally I think I'd try to get her feedback as much as possible on the strengths and weaknesses of this novel and then start another one playing to your strengths rather than trying to eradicate your weaknesses. I'd also try to leave the door open to go back to her with your next novel but it sounds like it already is.
It's tough to come so close. Best of luck with your meeting.

Thanks, Casey, that's very encouraging. I do hope you get there with your interested agent.

Tiger

Thanks, Ashlinn, you may have put your finger on it. The agent was very enthusiastic about seeing my next novel. I had in fact sent her a synopsis of this, since I am planning a series, and I do know that the plot I have outlined for the second one is stronger than the first.

She must be pretty impressed or she wouldn't bother to do this!!!!
The whole plot and structure issue is, I feel,one of the areas so many writers fall down on.
It is what turns beautiful writing into a book...without the right structure it's just words.
It may be the agent has some specific suggestions about tightening it up and would be prepared to re read after some more work.
Either way good luck and make it perfectly clear that you are in this for the long haul and have what it takes.
HB x

Thanks, HB, it's good to know I'm not the only one struggling with the plotting side of this business. You're quite right, without it, there's no book(s).

Tiger

That's one of the reasons I would always encourage people to do some fairly detailed planning before they start writing.
I know this goes against the grain for some writers who much prefer to show up and go with the flow. However the trouble with that - especially for a new author - is it's so difficult to ensure the structure is right and as one of the posters said -that is the hardest thing to put right at the end.
HB x

Yep, HB, I agree 100%. The sad fact is that I DID put in a heck of a lot of work pre-planning and plotting this one. Obviously it needed more, or different. At least I get to find out exactly what went wrong.

Tiger

She must think you're capable of learning what she thinks the novel lacks, or it would just be a nice no.

Presumably she was very impressed with all other aspects of the book. To some extent, I think plotting is one of the few areas where outside help is less intrusive. You can't get others to characterise for you or tell you how to use language, but they can suggest a reordering of event sequences.

I'd just listen, be enthusiastic abotu her suggestions, ask if she recommends any editorial consultancies, and take it from there.

Very very good luck with it.
C

<Added>

I'm not sure I agree with those who say restructuring is the hardest thing to put right. Perhaps it is without an outside eye: if you can't see the flaws, you need someone to point them out.

I've worked with lots of writers who couldn't 'see' the plots that were staring them in the face - threads they'd opened up but then not developed. An outside eye can solve those problems, can give the author insight into how to reshape the plot. It's almost impossible to teach someone who writes badly to write well, but a good writer can be taught how to reshape a story. I've seen it happen countless times.

I've got to agree with ashlinn on this one. I had an experience almost identical to yours, tiger: agent read an ms of my first attempt at a children's novel, loved it, asked me in for a chat and suggested huge structural revisions (which were completely necessary). I made the changes, but it proved to be a case of too little, too late. Agent concluded that, although the structural problems with this particular book were too deep to be reworked, she wanted to see my next book.

It was really hard to let go of that first book - it will always be "special" to me, although I can now see that the structural issues were just too inbuilt for the thing to fly. But the next book was (structurally, anyway) ten times better, and is now being published.

You deserve huge congratulations for the recognition you've received so far - my advice at this stage would be not get get too hung up on this particular book, treat it as a really super learning experience (this agent is still going to be interested in you a year from now, or whenever you submit your next ms) and start forging ahead with something even better.