OK, I'm just opening this one up, though i doubt there's really an answer. I read again and again that what a successful writer needs is 10% talent and 90% persistence/tenacity. How does anyone develop this persistence/self-belief/endurance so that all those inevitable rejections don't stop them in their tracks? I've had the tenacity to (almost) complete my novel, but I'm all too easily discouraged by rejection, so while part of me is longing to 'get it out there' another part is cringeing in anticipation. I know that starting another book is essential, but does anyone have any tips/experiences/thoughts on how to develop a thicker skin?
Susiex

I think it's catch-22. Because if you really did have a thick skin and weren't at all bothered by rejection you probably wouldn't be able to write a good novel anyway - it calls for sensitivity, receptiveness etc. And if you have a thin skin - which I suspect most writers probably do, even if they're able to cover it up with a brisk & businesslike exterior - it's going to hurt sometimes.

I think developing a professional attitude helps (i.e. recognising that rejection isn't personal), as does trying not to take it all too seriously.

I received a rejection letter from an agent this morning, which said, '...fluent and articulate, good on mood, atmosphere and dialogue. But I did have the slight feeling that you had made it up as you went along...' Unfortunately, he'd hit the nail right on the head - made me smile, even though it was a rather painful truth to swallow.

That's a very good point, about professionalism, and a timely reminder.
Your rejection sounds to me like a very positive one.

'...fluent and articulate, good on mood, atmosphere and dialogue.

That's brilliant. It just sounds like if you focus a bit more on the plot side you could be published.
What you say about writers having thin skins - yes, I agree with that. We could not receive all the sensations and impressions we do if we were thick-skinned. I paint as well, and I wonder sometimes why I chose these two ways of expressing myself when so much rejection is involved. But then, I've got to do it or there'd be no point in being here.
Susiex

I think this is the bottom line:

I wonder sometimes why I chose these two ways of expressing myself when so much rejection is involved. But then, I've got to do it or there'd be no point in being here.

I've got this postcard on my wall in the room where I do most of my writing, which I got from BBC Writersroom after sending in a script. It says, 'Writing's not a job, nor a hobby. It's an addiction without a cure'. Very true & quite comforting in a downbeat sort of way: if we're hopeless addicts who are going to write anyway, whether rejected or not, why should rejection worry us?

I think RJH is absolutely right to say that you can't develop a thicker skin, because writing needs a thin one. But a fellow novelist said to me at your stage, Susieangela, that you have to try to develop a business self, and a writer's self. And some of the business head's job is to protect the writer's self: to understand the situation in an unemotional way, and try to work out how to manage it practically, but also emotionally.

Emotionally, no, it isn't personal, it's perfectly true, but that can be said/thought in a way which belittles how painful it is - the implication being that you shouldn't be so upsetl. But actually, it is personal at your end, even if it isn't at theirs: you put everything you had into it ("stapled your heart to the pages", as Editorial Anoymous puts it), and someone whose judgement you depend on said it wasn't good enough. I think the first step is to acknowledge that that hurts, and that's okay. Sobbing, screaming, throwing things, getting drunk, eating chocolate, spending money are all legitimate ways of dealing with it. So is recognising that you will be thrown off-balance about your writing for a day, or a week. I never expect to write another word on the day I've had a rejection - I go and do something completely different - huge walk, huge shop, huge dinner. With experience, you learn not that it doesn't hurt, but that the hurt will end, and that then you'll be able to see what help (if anything) the rejection is actually offering you. It can really help to understand that. In fact, it sounds a bit Pollyanna-ish, but trying to see anything positive in the rejection - even if it's just one more towards your goal on the rejection thread in Private Members', or the fact that you're free to move on and tackle the next thing - can really help.

Practially, it helps to try to get the kind of affirmation and confidence-building feedback on your work that will help your writerly self-esteem to survive the rejections. Vague, family, non-writerly support is nice and cheering, but it's not the kind I mean. What you need it detailed, practical, word-by-word affirmation that your work has merit, even if (especially if, actually) that's backed up by details of where it's not so good. The negative means you can believe the positive. And trying short fiction, poetry or whatever, and entering comps and sending things in to Mslexia and the others can be hugely helpful: you can do them quicker, and send out lots at a time, so the agony of each one is diluted, and even, with some, pay for feedback. A larger commitment is something like an MA or other highish-level course. No, they won't necessarily get you published, but, again, there's that detailed. And on WW, of course. Yes, part of the point is to support each other, but there are too many good, discriminating writers on here for it to be just, 'lovely darling,' .

And yes, starting another book is essential, though as I've described, be prepared to be thrown of course when you do get rejections for the previous one. I would also suggest sending out a big batch of submissions at once. That way no one rejection is the end of all your hopes, and by the time the last one comes home you'll a) be well into the new novel and b) formulating your plans for the next round of submissions, or the re-write, or the editorial service, or whatever... By then, too, you'll have learnt such a lot from the new one, you'll see the old one quite differently...

Emma

It could be worse - we could all be stand up comediens at risk of getting heckled and booed every night.

Yes, I don't know how they do it.

On the other hand, as I said to my singer sister, I only have perhaps eight or ten places I can audition my novel, for 2-3 years work. Whereas in theory for standups and other performers, tomorrow is another day...

Emma

Did she hit you over the head with a book, Emma?

Emma, thank you. This is why I joined WW - it's so good to hear other people's take on things and to know I'm not alone! That is really helpful, esp. the Business Head protecting the writerly self, and also sending out a large batch of submissions. One thing though, if you do send out large batches and you get some positive feedback but which requires some re-writing/editing, are you reducing your chances because you've already sent loads out? (Sorry have horrible cold and can't express myself today! - hope that makes sense).
As to the positive/constructive feedback, that's also why I joined WW and have already got lots.
Love 'stapled your heart to the page'!
Rupert, that's a good quote. I think my fear is that I may not be an addict - ie that I will be discouraged by rejection and stop - but since I've written in one form or another since childhood, I guess it's unlikely.
Naomi - good point. Stand up comedy as a profession would be the pits (hah!)
Susiex

Did she hit you over the head with a book, Emma?

She might have, but manuscripts are heavier and I'm bigger than she is...

SA, as far as feedback after some rejections goes, you wouldn't be the first person to come onto WW and ask for opinions about that. It's always going to depend, but before you start any heavy re-writing you need to be sure that you agree with the feedback, and maybe that several feeders-back are saying the same things consistently. You can get some really odd reasons for rejection, and particularly if you don't yet have a robust confidence in what your book is and isn't like, (and, yes, chickens and eggs - how do you acquire that confidence?) it can be very easy to be swayed in a different direction by every comment. There's always the option of re-writing and then asking if you can re-submit, or reckoning if its different enough and long enough ago, they won't notice anyway (I've heard a dozen differen opinions on this one). On the other hand, and I'm fairly sure there are WWers who got feedback early on which made them realised what was wrong so comprehensively that they wrote to withdraw the other submissions there and then, so as not to waste everyone's time...

I have to say, though, that you may very well not get any feedback at all: as a proportion of submissions it's the exception rather than the rule that they bother to scribble anything down, let alone put together an even slightly exact respons.

Emma

I think you'll find you develop a thicker skin as you go along, quite naturally - i'm sure we all remember our very first rejection - i can - and the tears, and the sense of doom, telling myself 'what's the point?' (what a drama queen, looking back!)

I can assure you though,Susie, many rejections later, it is so much less painful and now i can even laugh at some of my rejection letters. The process is so slow, aswell, you get to the point where it's just a blessed relief to get any letter, rejection or not!!!

Yes, I know it's most likely that all you'll get is a form rejection. And I understand why - but it does make it all so, well, random. Well, it will be an interesting process. And yes, Casey, that sounds like sense - just keep on going and the thicker skin will gradually grow. I like the idea of always having another iron in the fire - always having something 'out there' to pin a bit of hope to.
Thanks, guys -
Susiex

I have to say that the thing that gets me is the waiting, not so much the rejections. With a rejection, you have resolution and move on. When an editor keeps you waiting for months on end for any kind of decision over a story, it strikes me as unprofessional. Why are they running a magazine open to submissions if they can't even handle the workload? Most ask you not to submit anywhere else, which in light of this seems rather unfair.

Yes, praise to the ones who get back to you quickly, with either rejection (which is always disappointing) or an acceptance. It's the waiting that kills me.

JB

Yeah, I sent out a proposal for my non-fiction book to a publisher over a year ago (after a recommendation from a tutor who knew her)- after hearing nothing after several months, I sent a polite email and received an instant - and pleasant - reply saying she handn't had a chance to look at it and couldn't say when she would... still waiting.
Susiex

Now that's just plain rude!

I waited a long time (nine months) to hear back from my agent, but forgave him because in that time two of his best-selling authors released new novels and he was suitably apologetic. Sometimes the wait is worth it. I hope so in your case.

JB