Hi everyone,

I'm new here so thought I'd start with a question. When agents/publishers request a CV or biography as part of a submission, what are they actually after?

I have no publishing credits and can't think for one moment that anyone cares what jobs I have had, or where I went to school, or what my dog is called. Some guidance on this would be much appreciated.

I think it's just so they can get a general handle on you, and to see if your life story casts any interesting filter over your writing, eg if you've written a novel about the cirus and for three years you were a trapeze artist, sort of thing.

But not to worry if that's not the case. Just the bare bones will do - how old you are, where you live, what job(s) you've done, any interesting events you've been through that might be relevant to your writing. Rather than set it out as a formal CV, a short paragraph might be more appropriate, maybe even within the covering letter itself.

Hi Caro

Welcome. WW is a great site.

Lammi's advice about a paragraph of interesting details instead of a formal CV is great.

They are also looking to see what steps you've taken to develop your writing, so relevant classes with experienced teachers are worth noting, and it helps to have had some things published in small presses or online with a well-run web. If your writing is outstanding, they won't care, but a good track record may help.

I'd start by getting work critiqued on here, revising it and sending it out to small presses and awards. There's some excellent advice on small presses here, and there are plenty of awards for new writers going on all the time, regional and national. It's easier if you write short stories, articles or poetry to get published in the small press, but novel excerpts are sometimes taken, especially chunks that read as a short story. What do you write?

It's a personal thing, but I wouldn't approach an agent without having had a few acceptances here and there because I think that's like skipping a vital stage in training - but I'm sure not everyone agrees.

Cherys

It's a personal thing, but I wouldn't approach an agent without having had a few acceptances here and there because I think that's like skipping a vital stage in training - but I'm sure not everyone agrees.

- My reservation with this is that it pretty much requires a writer to embrace the short story form, and not all novelists do, by any means. Many simply have a publishable manuscript to send, end of story.

But then I'm assuming you're talking about submitting a novel, caro, and I might be well wide of the mark.

Yes, tell us a bit more about what you write, and where you see yourself headed.

Thanks for these replies. Yes, it is a novel I'm looking towards sending - I have posted the first chapter on the archive so if anyone has a moment to have a look I would be grateful.

The small amount of 'proper' writing experience I have had is not really relevant to the novel - I used to write press releases and articles for a charity, and also won a minor poetry comp (not a scam one but not exactly high-profile). I once wrote a play that won a competition when performed but again nothing prestigious, and it probably won because of the acting rather than the writing. I feel that mentioning these things will just look amateurish and it might be better to leave them out rather than draw attention to the fact that I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Caro

I wouldn't say opportunities are limited to short story writers. There are avenues for new novelists - lots of first novel awards. Since joining WW about a month ago, I've heard of LBB (OK so from next year that's defunct but they spring up all the time) Daily Mail, CWA, and a couple of others I can't recall offhand. New Writing Ventures, local authorities and the Arts Council regularly hold schemes to try and unearth new talent. Winners of Bridport and other prestigious short fiction awards have actually won on extracts from novels on several occasions. All I'm saying is, it's a good idea to get immersed in this world first, to see where your work gets placed in this context. It's a tremendous chance to improve and achieve. Then when the writing's as good as it can be, it's time to send out. Sorry if I'm telling you what you already know, it's just that if we hunt for them, there are plenty of opportunities for honing skill before putting our work in front of the sternest critics, the agents and publishers. Most wonderful 'first time' novelists have actually been grafting away for years and have some track record on that, however apparently humble.

I'd be inclined to mention what you have achieved Caro. If you truly think it smacks of amateurishness (they may not), just say that poetry and drama you've written have won minor awards in the past and this is your first prose piece.

Cherys

I wouldn't say opportunities are limited to short story writers. There are avenues for new novelists

- There are, but they're few and far between, to put it midly.

Most wonderful 'first time' novelists have actually been grafting away for years and have some track record on that, however apparently humble.

That's true, but I've still met quite a few writers who haven't gone down this route. I had short stories published before I submitted a novel - it's how I got my first agent - but I shouldn't like anyone to be under the impression this was The Way To Do It. It's a way, but it's by no means a hurdle that has to be got over before you can start approaching agents or publishers.

I'm not suggesting that's the way to do it. I'm suggesting that a submission with no track record stands more chance of being passed over. There are ways of getting a track record. It's not a mysterious process. It's a case of Googling regularly to see where your work might be placed, sending out, getting to know the industry. That's manageable, but many people don't do it. They jump in all enthusiasm and no knowledge. One reason agents and publishers ask for CVs is to see what preparatory work people have done before applying to them for representation. It's like other lines of work in that respect.
None of this matters if it's a brilliant script of course, but most scripts by people who know nothing of the industry don't make the grade. Learning the trade is not going to do anyone any harm.
Cherys

I'm not for one minute suggesting you shouldn't serve an apprenticeship, or learn craft, or get feedback along the way. But this bothers me:

I'm suggesting that a submission with no track record stands more chance of being passed over

I remember asking my editor how much attention she paid to lists of publications/competition wins just after I was signed. She shook her head and said, 'I don't'. It was the manuscript that counted, she said. If that was good enough to take the book further, the CV was irrelevant. If the ms was bad, then ditto. Emma Darwin has a phrase about writing comps being 'beneath the publisher's radar', and I get that impression strongly too.

There's no harm at all in building up a writing CV - it can get you contacts, it can help your confidence, it can provide you with writing-impetus. In the long and lonely journey that is crafting a novel, comp wins and publications in zines can be a really important boost for an individual. But it's absolutely not a vital element of a submission package.

One reason agents and publishers ask for CVs is to see what preparatory work people have done before applying to them for representation.

But that preparatory work can come in many forms. It can come in the form of research, or having a related experience to the world of the novel being submitted, or the demonstration that the author has simply been writing steadily for a while. It doesn't have to be a list of publications.

But that preparatory work can come in many forms. It can come in the form of research, or having a related experience to the world of the novel being submitted, or the demonstration that the author has simply been writing steadily for a while. It doesn't have to be a list of publications.

True.

I'd also agree with Kate and disagree with Cherys. I don't think some kind of writing apprenticeship, whether comps or short stories being published, makes any difference when you're submitting a novel. I doubt many agents or publishers care either way. It's whether the novel's any good. And I suspect it's very much a minority of first-time novelists have won comps or had stories published.

But Caro, I think mentioning your small successes, and a job involving writing, even if only press releases, etc., is highly relevant. Add your age, a few brief personal details to lift it a bit and there's your bio. They only expect a short para, I reckon. It's not like in non-fiction where your experience and qualificvations to write on the topic are directly relevant. They just want a sense of who you are and where you are coming from.

Rosy

Speaking with small publisher hat on for a minute, I would say competitions/short stories published etc are of negligible interest when someone submits a novel. It's all about the book. If it's well-written, well-structured, and the writer has something to say, a story to tell (not always the case, even with writers whose prose style and all that stuff is accomplished) then we wouldn't care if it was the first thing they'd ever written.

Speaking with small publisher hat on for a minute, I would say competitions/short stories published etc are of negligible interest when someone submits a novel. It's all about the book. If it's well-written, well-structured, and the writer has something to say, a story to tell (not always the case, even with writers whose prose style and all that stuff is accomplished) then we wouldn't care if it was the first thing they'd ever written.

As a hard-wired novelist, I'd say that writing stuff for comps could be a real distraction from the business of learning your novelist's trade, unless it's something you want to do anyway. The two aren't the same (though it's usually the short-story writers who keep telling us that!). I was taken on by an agent without a pub credit to my name, and I only had one credit when I was taken on by my current agent - and though she had just about heard of Bridport (though no others), she wasn't very interested.

I think the request for a CV is much more for the non-fiction authors, where their credentials to write, and write well, about their subject are all-important. For fiction writers the samples are all - nothing else matters much. So for fiction I agree, you only need the barest outline, (it's handy for them to have all your contact details in one place) concentrating on any jobs you've had that have influenced or fed your writing, anything that might be a good angle for publicity.

Emma