Hi

I was just wondering whether anyone had an opinion on how many agents/publishers you should submit to before you decide that something just doesn't work. I sent off maybe fifteen or twenty submissions last year for a novel I was working on, but not getting much in the way of enthusiasm I decided to temporarily park it and work on something else. Now I'm wondering whether I should give it another chance. Anybody else given up on a piece of work?

Cheers

JMac

My golden number is 30. I don't know why, it just feels right. This would include MacMillan New Writing.

After that, i would not give up on the book but enter it - whilst working on my next project - for any novel competitions that came up.

If i really still believed in the book then i'd consider self-publishing - the current Diggory Press interview is interesting.

An editorial report is also something i would have done before i gave up on the book, maybe after ten or so standard rejections, before i'd submitted to every agent i'd love to rep me.

Let's face it, we put so much time and love into each script, unless you haven't the heart for it anymore i believe exploring every single avenue is worth it - whilst of course working on your next novel.

Casey

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Mind you, Jmac, i did give up on my first novel after 12 rejecs - i wrote it in a void, then joined this site, realized how dire it was and decided to move onto the next project which was exciting me. I guess it depends how much you believe in the piece - it will take a lot for me to give up on my current one.

You should also join a WW group and gather a few reviews of excerpts of the novel. If they give you the thumbs up on your writing style, next try an editorial service for an overview of plot structure and characterisation, etc.
Also join the synopsis group to work on that part of your submission.

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It is also important to get stuck into writing Novel #2 while you are submitting #1 round the Agents.

Yes, I agree, don't give up until a lot of the rejections are saying the same sort of thing - and/or you're getting input from WW or else where that does - and you yourself begin to see why it isn't good enough. If the rejections are all standard, and you're getting no feedback at all, then after fifteen or twenty (or, say, 60% of the places you could possibly send it), I'd be inclined to go for an editorial report.

But if you're writing NO. 2, as is the best advice, you may well find you begin yourself to realise what isn't right about NO. 1. You learn as much by writing another as you do from anyone else.

Emma

But if you're writing NO. 2, as is the best advice, you may well find you begin yourself to realise what isn't right about NO. 1. You learn as much by writing another as you do from anyone else.

- Just to say, I thoroughly endorse this. Plus it'll help keep your creative confidence up.

Thanks all. I'm well on with something else at the moment and haven't really thought about the first one in six months or so - I'd decided to treat it a practice run, and it was useful for working out the practicalities of actually sitting down and writing, as opposed to loafing around thinking about how great it would be if it were already written. It's just that I read an article recently (by an agent) which started, 'Pick the first fifty agents you want to submit to...' and I thought, 'Fifty? Maybe I've sold myself a bit short here' so I just thought I'd canvas an opinion. I should add that it was a US web site so things may be different over there.

In truth I think the comments I've had back are probably correct (most were standard rejections, but I did get one request for the full manuscript, the tale of which I think I've already posted, plus a couple of 'honest' readers) in terms of plot structure, or lack thereof. On the other hand I've got one guy who absolutely loves it, but I think that's mainly because he thinks he's in it ;-).
Anyone used an editorial service? Are they expensive? Alternatively, how do the groups work?

Cheers

J

I've recently used Cornerstones, Jmac, and was very satisfied with the service - as i say, at a cost though - 400 pounds or so for a 70,000 word script.
For me it was money well spent - invaluable advice (with concrete examples) given about plot, characters, structure, perspective, show not tell, beginning and denouement etc etc.

As for the groups, choose one you think might suit you, look at the fiction or novel groups, or if your genre is more specific one of those. You can upload work to your group members only and in turn look at and crit their uploads - may sound daunting if you haven't critted before but you'll soon get the hang of it and any comment whatsoever, as long as it is constructive, is appreciated.

Casey

My number would be far higher, JMac. In fact, I'd say never give up while there is ANY avenue left to try. I had my first one rejected by just about every agency under the sun (40 or 50 at least) before finding the wonderful agent who took me on. It is, after all, an enormously subjective process.

But I would add the rider that there are rejections and rejections. Never mind the number, read the small print! In among the 'standard reply' ones I had a fairly high percentage who said individual and positive things (either about what was good about that one, and how to improve it, or else 'send me your next' and also 3 or 4 who called in the whole manuscript before rejecting it. That kept me going. I think if I received only standard form rejections I'd probably be inclined to take the hint and give up sooner (15 or 20, say).

Rosy

I think you should only give up if/when you decide you no longer want this book published. I've given up sending out my novel after only about 15 rejections, because, having continued to write while I was sending it out, I've started to learn what was wrong with it, and now feel I can do so much better. I think if I still believed in it then I wouldn't give up until I'd sent it to every bleedin' agent in the Writers' and Artists' Yearbook!

'Pick the first fifty agents you want to submit to...' and I thought, 'Fifty? Maybe I've sold myself a bit short here' so I just thought I'd canvas an opinion. I should add that it was a US web site so things may be different over there.

Of course, after sending them out to a few dozen UK agents, there is still the US market to tap into. My cousin had his SF novel accepted by a US agent last year, after numerous rejections from UK agents. It is due to be published this year.

- NaomiM

I do think 50 is a rather US figure. If you've done your research as far as is possible, I'd be surprised if there were 50 agents who were worth submitting to, even for general fiction.

But I would add the rider that there are rejections and rejections.

I think this is absolutely central to such a decision. If you're not getting any expressions of interest (comments, requests for full MS) from a reasonable number of agents(15? 20?) then it's probably worth taking a long hard look again at the book. As Rosy says, it's when you're getting plenty of encouraging noises that you know someone, somewhere, will take it on, and it's worth persisting to the last possibility.

Emma

Thanks for the comments, everyone, all good stuff as usual. After all that I've decided that it's going to be difficult to finish the one I'm working on if I do get the first story published, because the second one uses an event in the first as a fairly crucial bit of backstory that doesn't get revealed until the end (you don't need to have read the first one to understand it, but it would spoil the mystery if you did). Dilemma solved. If I ever did revisit it, it would have to be as a sort of prequel. Not that anyone's ever going to read either of them, probably, but it keeps me amused, and I'm saving the planet by recycling old plots...

Cheers

J