From yesterday's Observer

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,2042127,00.html

It might prove to be the most encouraging read but it should be useful nevertheless, esp. the 1st time novelists' accounts

David

<Added>

It might "not" prove, I meant to say

Very interesting article. I hadn't realised for eg that the average first novel in hardback sells only 400 copies -which presumably means it never goes into paperback. My YA novel is going straight into paperback. Does that happen for adult stuff too, does anyone know?


Naomi

I learnt that if it is true that everyone has a novel in them, most people would be best advised to keep it there.

sometimes i find this site so encouraging...

Interesting article.

Casey

Kate Saunders, while reading for the Orange Prize, felt that 'publishers seem enormously scared of too much originality. Many of the first novels we had to read this year appeared to be watered-down copies of something else.'

Yes, very depressing

Sarah

Well, considering that in 20 books there was only one historical fiction (and that the Jane Harris The Observations, which has had a pretty mixed reception), which must be very unrepresentative of what's being published in accessible-literary-fiction-by-women, which is what the Orange is supposed to be looking at, I think the judges were looking in the wrong place.

Emma

· Around 70,000 titles are published a year in Britain, of which 6,000 are novels · Any large UK publisher will receive 2,000 unsolicited novel manuscripts in a year

In a way I can actually find some comfort in these figures!

I wonder how many manuscripts are sent to agents? People who send direct to publishers are usually either desperate, having already submitted to all the agents and been rejected, or they don't understand the process. Only a few direct to publisher manuscripts will be any good or in any way competition to a good writer.

So that's 50 a week, most of which are probably dire and I bet you it's the same people posting mulitiple copies to every publisher and agent in the book.

And then, if you discount all the retired admirals banging on about their salty exploits, and all the students writing about their drink and drug parties, and all the secretaries who've missed the chicklit boat, and all the abused children (sorry but it's a cut-throat business)and all the recovered 'holics', and the 'daughter, mother, sister - we hate/love each other' stories

if you do all that

then

If you write a GOOD book - it's probably not quite as hard as it might seem to get published

The average sale of a hardback book by a first-time writer is 400 copies

So some sell less - incredible.

Actually, Jemima, I sent my novel direct to a publisher - it is going to their acquisiton meeting in a couple of days (fingers crossed!). While waiting for the, sent same novel direct to another publisher and got request for full MS, which is now with them. It can work.

<Added>

'waiting for them', sorry.

Well done Steerpike and good luck!!!

Can I ask, why did you go direct to a publisher?

You've done an MA and obviously would 'know the business' - so what made you choose a route that you knew was 'unorthodox'?

I am intrigued by your post, jemimacan, because presumably you are talking from your own experience of your own 'interest' in the publishing/agent arenas. And like the majority of aspiring writers here, I am interested in finding out how the industry works.

So this is how you work? You discount the work of older middle/upper class males, young males and females, female aspiring chick lit writers, and all female writers of relationship novels.

OK. I understand that, and it’s all horses for courses in the writing world, isn’t it?

But you also don’t want to see anything by anyone who was abused as a child, or anyone who has fought against alcoholism? You do not mention the work they might produce… just the writers. The people.

I find that absolutely extraordinary. Do your writers have to complete a questionnaire before you will accept them(or, sorry, the agents and publishers that you have an 'interest in, stating on oath that they were not abused, or fought against alcoholism?

But moving on… you say “write a GOOD book”

So… taking all the above into account, what, would you say, is a ‘good book’ exactly?

Could you give us a few examples?


<Added>



added: On reflection, I assume what you intended to convey was that certain topics are 'done to death' on occasion, and abuse and alcoholism are in that category at the moment?

Nessie

Exactly that, if you're aware of the hackneyed, the cliched, the routine, the trends and fads

and you as much as possible avoid the 'done to death'

and you don't try and play the 'predict the market' game

then your chances improve

But... I'm not saying don't write these things

Just ...this is a 'getting published' thread and if that ambition takes precedence over your need to contribute to the literary canon then... that's what I would advise



<Added>

I wasn't referring to the 'writers' / 'the people' - I was referring to genres of fiction - and all of those are clearly identifiable from what I said

I'm taling about the writing - if the writing's no good you don't even have to worry about what age they are, or whether they're photogenic or not

harsh but true - in mass market fiction

You omitted to say what writing the abused and alcoholics needed to do to be discounted. It followed a list of types of writing to be ignored. A lazy paragraph.. I've written plenty. Not to worry.

I think I know what you mean.

And the list of 'good books' would be.....?

Vanessa

Apologies. That sounds rude.

I've had a very bad day so far... and have no wish to make it worse.

Cheers.

Wasn't Jemima, in that comment, referring to what people call "Misery Memoirs"?

Probably.

I spend a lot of time with people like this... and tend to over-react on their behalf.

A bad habit.

v

'misery memoirs' - what a brilliant category - that's exactly what I meant and I wasn't belittling the experience of these people ( whether they've written books about it or not)

I thought the Frank McCourt stuff was fantastic - well the first one was brilliant, the second was.. ummm and I didn't read him anymore after that

I read the first Dave Pelzer etc etc and all I'm suggesting is that as a publishers' 'product' it's been overdone and the quality and the novely have declined dramatically

Having a horrible life doesn't always make a good story or a good writer - the life is just as valid though - and the market is saturated now, dripping really

'and the list of 'good' books...?

Well, I didn't say there was a list of good books (if there was then by definition they would already be published - so look to the canon I guess)

I said write a 'good' book... and you'll be published. That doesn't mean that 'only' good books get published but if you write a 'bad' book and you know it's a 'bad' book - well... you're not exactly helping yourself

What is it... a 'good' book?

Same thing it's always been and you know it when you see it.

What's a good book? Read, read and read more - that's where you'll find the answer to that one.