There's an interesting article in todays Guardian which should come as a surprise to no one. It says that nearly half those quetioned in a survey in the industry felt they worked in a white, middle-class ghetto whose employees were drawn from a small ethnic pool.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1167625,00.html

There is an interesting accompanying piece by Diran Adebayo a black writer of literary fiction and his dealings publishers and editors. One PR said to him "We loved the book and really understood the issues you were writing about" Then sent out a press release that said his book represented a great breakthrough for "coloured" British writers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1167569,00.html

I tried to make a similar point on this site in a previous thread. Although the replies I received to that thread see to discount the argument and say it was a false premise.

http://writewords.org.uk/forum/48_8272.asp

Kenny, an interesting piece- not that it should come as a big surprise. And the quote from Penguin was typically cynical- 'a workforce that mirrors the population, especially urban populations where the majority of books are sold, will be able to tap into the whole market.' Also known as- hey! we'll sell more books to black and Asian readers if we employ a few black and Asian people. Grr.

I don't think I understand the point being made.

Publishing seems to me to be a middle-class profession, white people are, I'm sorry to say, not exactly a minority, and males dominate the upper echelons of the boardroom in almost every industry!

So what is being said here? Nothing out of the ordinary if you ask me.

As for the comment regarding a 'breakthrough for coloured writers', in an industry where the celebrity remains out of the public eye, often faceless and sometimes sexually anonymous, I really don't understand what race has to do with how valid a writer's work is. Or anything else for that matter.

Hi

Race shouldn't really matter but unfortunately it does, judging from Dirans experiences. You would think people would have the courtesy to get someone’s name right even if it is not not an anglacised name,as he states:" They say black names confuse people and I get referred to as Adeguru or Adewhatsit?"

Also again from the article a PR said to him:"We loved the book and really understood all the issues you were writing about." But then sends out a press release that said his book represented a great breakthrough for "coloured" British writers. "Coloured" being a derogative decription of black people that last had currency in the seventies!

Kenny
You've hit on something I was thinking about very recently. It does seem to be a world dominated by the white middle class (I was thinking this when scanning through lists of literary agents) - I feel somewhat alienated - how is someone from the above background going to relate to my experiences as a British Asian second generation immigrant? There needs to be a change, like there has been in all other professions (albeit a very slight change)..I'm not talking about positive discrimination - but more of an effort should be made to recruit those from ethnic minorities - then as an ethnic minority myself, I might have someone who can relate to me personally..and we might have more of a diversity of books publsihed..on the other hand, just because someone is not from an ethnic minority background, it does not mean that they are not capable of relating to someone coming from a different perspective - similarly, someone of my background may not be able to relate to my experiences at all - but the important thing is to have diversity, not a homogenous publishing industry.

Recently, I went to a meeting of 26 UK children’s writers: 25 were white and 23 were women. Probably, all but two were middle class. Interestingly, the most successful writer there (in terms of sales) was the one black woman. I’m a male children’s writer and, apart from the majority of writers being white women, the majority of children’s editors and agents are too. Are they prejudiced against people of other ethnic backgrounds and classes, and men? Well, they certainly don’t think they are. And the ones I’ve met are all basically decent people. However, I have begun to realise that there may be a subtle bias against my writing, in that my main characters are always male and don’t, on the whole, tend to be what used to be described as ‘new men’ (mind you, they’re not exactly ‘lads’ either). What I’ve decided to do about this is, instead of kind of hiding the fact, to make more of it: to push the fact that my writing is different for those reasons and that there will be males out there who can relate to it. Incidentally, the black woman writer mentioned above is, apart from being a nice person, very confident in the value of what she has to say. Her books are often about race issues and she’s proved there is obviously a market for them. Perhaps most tellingly, she is also a very good writer.

From my experiences of being part of an ethnic minority in the society I live in, I have to say that the colour of the people that I've worked for has had very little impact on me at all; let alone what I perceive as their class. What does constitute middle class these days anyway? A cetain salary bracket? What someone's Daddy did for a living? If I, or you, accepted a job in the publishing world would we immediatley become middle class? In my expereince I find it best to judge the individuals I encounter on their merits (or lack of) rather than pigeon-holing them by some potential shaky social formula.

Harry

Harry,
It’s possible that ‘middle class’ is a term which has little meaning outside of white culture. But, although its precise definition is hazy and its biological existence questionable, believe me, it is still a strong determinant in many aspects of life. Accent and vocal pitch, body language, manners, background, finance, tastes and habits all play a part in marking out a white middle class person. Middle class people themselves tend to claim, these days, that class no longer matters, but the fact is they still tend ultimately to stick to their own, in terms of business, friendship and marriage. It’s fine to hold the attitude that such things don’t matter to you. But it’s also prudent to recognise their existence, even, or especially, when the carriers believe they aren’t actually infected.

This sort of subject is an unfortunate one to be introduced to a WW Forum. I would suggest that all interested Members write direct to The Guardian putting their points of view.

I was not aware that this Member or that Member was from this or that ethnic mix and - quite frankly - I couldn't care less for I think it should NOT matter in the least to fellow Members.

After all, I have only recently found out that certain members are not male but are 'from the other side of the House'!

I have long felt that any judging, assessment, appreciation or whatever should be entirely based upon that what that person writes, how that person comments and the general conduct with which they handle these creative functions.

For Heaven's sake can we not have something that does not become infected with such poison as raised by the Article in The Guardian.

Len

Hear what you're saying Len - on this site - race should certainly be a non-issue - writing ability is the sole criteria by which anybody should be judged - however, in the big wide world out there, unfortunately, it is an issue - and we can dig our heads into the sand and pretend it doesn't exist or we can do something about it - everyone has this choice

Len

On the contrary, I found the topic a legitimate topic to be discussed here. The author Diran Adebayo comes from a similar background to myself, black working class.From my personal perspective I want to hear about his experiences in the publishing world positive, negative or whatever. I found his comments somewhat illuminating and and interesting!

Cheers Kenny

Kenny,
Of course you are entitled to admire the works of any writer but you miss my point.

Traveller agrees 'that race should be a non-issue on this site'; he sums up succinctly exactly what I mean. I feel this way about political matters and I would object if this subject were the centre of a topic.

Yes, 'out there' are so many injustices, so much hatred and anger. It is not 'head in the sand' to hope that all this doesn't infiltrate the Forum discussions.

I know you feel very deeply about all this so why not write about it, compose songs, write poetry... I am sure that all would be welcomed onto WW. However the place for 'statements' on racial matters is, in my opinion, not on the WW site.

Len

Len

Hi. Of course race should not be a issue on this site, that is not the point I am trying to make. I think you are missing my point.Have you read the Diran Adebayo article?

I don't believe in censorship of thought or opinion.

As a prospective would be author it is very informative to hear the experiences of published authors, particulary those from a similar background as yours, in my case Diran Adebayo.

This forum is called "Getting Published". Diran Adebayo is the brother of Dotun Adebayo one of he founder members of "The X Press" Publishing company so his opinion has a certain authority and weight to it, so it is very interesting to hear the opinion of somebody on the both sides of the fence ie an author and a brother of a publisher.

Cheers
Kenny

Kenny,
Wow! We seem to be both missing each other's points! So I think that the best think I can say is that I respect your opinion.

Cheers,

Len

Len

Ditto.

Cheers
Kenny