Hi

Suffering writer's block so started to think of silly questions...

When submitting a full MS to an agent/publisher does one include like a page for say, acknowledgments or a dedication?

It always intrigued me that when I read a novel, more likely than not there's a page at the front stating something like "for...." and at the back some kind of acknowledgment as in, "this novel would not be possible without the help of...etc etc."

I just wondered if the writer submitted the MS with such things already attached.

Just thinking out loud really. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum - maybe it ought to be in the Lounge bit!

Happy Boxing Day!

Jen
x

I always think I'll work those bits out as and when required

Some people overdo it - you know, 'thanks to Quentin Tarantino for reading' - lol.

Sarah

I don't know what other people do, but I always think it's a little bit premature to include dedication/acknowledgements at submission. I don't know when you do put them in, but I would assume it's when you have a publishing deal. Besides anything else, I've found the people I'd want to acknowledge in my book change from month to month. Poeple who were integral when you started writing disappear from your life, and others, who you might have only recently met, can be indispensible nearer the end of the book. That's been my experience, anyway.

I concur with Sarah #1 and Sarah #2. Sending an acknowledgements or dedication page to an agent or publisher before a book deal has been offered will not only seem premature, but highly presumptious. I wouldn't recommend it.

JB

Hi

I don't think it matters either way - though I'm not sure how you could know pre-agent who all the people are you want to acknowledge, as many of them might well be people in your agency, publishing compant etc.

Do agents get pissed off if you don't acknowledge them? I guess either acknowledge no one, or everyone. I don't like it when the acknowledgements get really gushy, though. Personally, I'm going to just have an alphabetised, comma-separated list of everyone I want to acknowledge and leave it at that. None of the, 'I want to thank my amazing and brilliant agent...'

I think the best dedication I read - which are allowed to get a little bit gushy, after all, - was, 'Simply and impossibly, for my family' - I might nick it.

Best dedication I read was on a PhD thesis:

"To God for showing me that there are no mountains I can climb, no rivers I can cross, no stars I can reach."

:-)

Jen
x

Definitely not. Apart from, as JB says, appearing presumptuous, agents and or publishers aren’t interested at this stage.

Dee

Yes, I must stress that I do think it matters, and sending a dedication or acknowledgements page at this point would certainly not go in your favour, even if it had no affect at all.

The dedication to God one is rather depressing I think. My fave one this year was Neil Gaiman's from Anansi Boys, where he says 'you know how it is, you open a book and it isn't dedicated to you...but this one is[sic]'

I love dedicating stories, and at first opportunity, I will gush most heiniously. I have a lot of people to be thankful to.

JB

I must stress that I don't think it matters; in that I don't think an agent would not read the sample chapters if they came up against a dedications page, or have a negative preconceived idea of you if you included one. I don't think agents really care, at any stage, whether you have a dedications and/or acknowledgements page. (Personally, I find it endearing not presumptuous - but I'm not an agent). It's your writing that matters - the rest is incidental (which is not to say that you shouldn't give yourself every opportunity of being picked up - good cover letter, follow their guidelines etc. - if their submission guidelines say don't include a dedications page, then don't.)

Love the God dedication, btw!

The dedication to God one is rather depressing I think

It went on for a page and and a half. *g*

But it's all good to know these things. I guess best thing first is to get your MS as good as it can be and think about the rest later!

Jen
x

I don't think having one is an instant rejection, if the agent/editor would otherwise be keen, but it does show a certain lack of knowledge of how the publishing process works - a whiff of 'My mum loved it, so I'm sure you will,' - which could look amateurish (like putting copyright signs and 'FSBR' and so on) if that's the kind of thing an agent's on the watch for.

Really, they don't want anything except raw, plain text, which is either good enough to take on, or not. Everything else is just more bits to get lost and try not to spill coffee on.

Emma

<Added>

And yes, you add dedications etc. at the copy-editing stage, when the scripts being got ready for typesetting.

a whiff of 'My mum loved it, so I'm sure you will,'

I'd love to - just once - read a book that the writer had been stuck up in his attic writing for nobody but his Mum, with no real wish for anyone else to see it. I bet it'd be a much better novel than the I-want-the-world-and-his-wife-to-read-my-shit one I'm penning.

I think it totally depends upon the subject of the book. If the story has been highly dependent on someone's input, say for example you were writing a novel about autism and had to spend a lot of time with autistic children, or if you were writing the story of a particular child with autism, then yes, I'd say it was a valid and important part of the submission. If nothing else, it shows that the work is research based rather than the bias being on the author's imagination. Alternatively, if you want to thank your spouse for being supportive, friends for reading, someone else for copy editing, then I'd suggest you were being a little hot off the mark, because if an agent does accept your work, it's going to be another eighteen months before the thing hits the shelves, and in that time you're going to meet a whole team of people whose imput may well overshadow those you currently wish to thank.

Colin M
(thanks to DB for allowing a forum in which to reply to this mail)



<Added>

after a little further thought on this matter, it's just struck me that if your book was heavily reliant on real life experience, then it would be in your cover letter anyway, explaining why you are in the best position to write this story, so even in that case, you won't need a note of acknowledgement because you've already stated that the book is based upon real experience or in-depth research.

I'd have to agree that it's unnecessary at the submissions stage, and might look pretty amateurish.

Both novels that I've submitted to agents would, in their perfect form, include a relevant quotation on the very first page (one from TE Lawrence, the other from a rather obscure anthropologist) but I left them out on my submissions package for fear of appearing pompous...

Hey, I included a quotation on my submissions - the annoying thing was that about a week after submitting I'd decide upon another quote, and then another, and then...

Jeez, when did WWers become so prescriptive? If you feel strongly about saying something thoughtful like 'Dedicated to my mother' then go ahead - it's not going to be an instant rejection and it might just make them read your chapters a bit more closely. (Saying, 'For my previous female self' might not be such a great idea, though.)