Good points.

Loads to ponder.

I was pulled up short when Jon McGregor spoke about his highly acclaimed novel "If Nobody Speaks of remarkable Things", and said that it was really a series of 'failed short stories.'

If that's so, then I'll get to dusting off a few hundred failures... maybe there's gold in them thar hills of paper?

thanks for the discussion, all.

vanessa

We may not have much time, but we still want (want even more?) to be immersed in something, and rightly or wrongly, a novel promises that in a way that a short-story collection doesn't look as if it will.

But surely that's exactly what short stories should be for.

They are perfect for someone with a short attention span who doesn't want to read a novel, and for those moments such as late at night when you want to read before you go to bed, or when sitting on a train.

Some people don't like reading chapters out of a novel, leaving the story hanging. With a short story, you get the plot and everything all sewn up in a neat little package, which doesn't take ages to read - perfect for those spare half hour moments.

I think it's a great shame that short stories are so undervalued. For me, there is something very satisfactory in being able to read a whole little story in about half an hour or less - it takes skill to tell a tale in so few words, and to make it entertaining enough to keep the reader's attention, whilst containing the requisite beginning, middle and conclusion.

Katerina

It's not that short stories don't do that, it's that people don't think they will. And if it is that absorbing, I suspect subconsciously they think they'll be disappointed and want more, not something that's done and dusted, and you'll have to switch into something completely different for the next story. I think you're a more sophisticated reader than most, Katarina, in that you understand the small-but-perfectly-formed pleasures of a single, perfect, gourmet chocolate, while others would rather buy a whole packet of basic chocolate biscuits and know they'll last for a while.

Of course, Leaf Books are doing very well with mini-books sold at exactly the places where people know they want a bite-sized fiction treat: coffee shops, railways stations... Nessie, have you explored them?

Emma

I wonder if there should be a writing for radio group on this site?

I'd never really considered it, myself, but loads of successful writers (including a fair few on this site) appear to have sharpened their skills by writing for the airwaves. Something tells me (and I may be totally wrong here) that radio is a more accessible medium than TV or film for emerging writers...so this is definitely something that I would want to consider.

Any tips for starting out? Or is it simply a matter of writing a short story with lots of dialogue?

Trilby

I know a good few writers who have had radio commissions. The unique thing about radio in the UK as opposed to any other media it is that there's pretty much only one buyer, ie the BBC. Although you can submit to independent production companies who might produce your work for pitching to the BBC. It's generally thought to be a good strategy to flog your stuff around all the independents first, using their feedback to make improvements as you go along. Then if none of them pick it up, your work should be in a much better state to pitch to the BBC. The good news is that the BBC is very receptive to new writers (I think this is part of their licensing mandate, not necessarily altruism). And not only Radios Four, Three and Two (in that order) but also the regional stations such as Radio Wales/Scotland. The bad news is that a radio broadcast credit is not as much of a stepping stone to future success as you might hope. It doesn't really open many doors in and of itself. (And of course, being the BBC, it doesn't pay much.) But it is very good to have on your CV.

This may be a very silly question, indeed: is an omniscient narrative voice anathema in radio plays today? apart from children's radio, that is...

I didn't realise this thread existed until just now.

I actually believe that a short story is harder to write than a novel. Its world and the techniques used to create it are those of a novel in microcosm. The short story writer has to everything the novelist does in just a few pages.

Poetry is often hailed as the highest form literature, conveying as it does an idea/ideas in the most economical and artistic language available. What I love about poetry is that - at its best - it engages me and impresses me from the first line through to the last line. I have yet to find a novel that has done such a thing - although so many start brilliantly, a lot do get saggy around page 50, and I think it is the form itself that creates that.

I like Snowbell's idea that the short story manages to fall somewhere between the two forms.

As for the 'Why don't they sell?' question. It is truly maddening. They should sell. I think Emma said a few posts back that people want something they can sink into like a meal, and I think that's true. There was some research recently that said the majority of people only read when they are on holiday, and it is then that they want to sink into some other universe that will carry them through for hundreds of pages.

I wish we could start a short story renaissance.


<Added>

Cross-posted with MF. Sorry.

Publishers are coming back to short stories via the Quick Reads format.
Amazon is also touting for contributions to their own downloadable version - for 49cents, so don't expect any royalties.

The problem I have found with the compilations of short stories by single authors is the uneveness in the quality.
Adam Thorpe's Is This the Way You Said? was a great disappointment.

The problem I have found with the compilations of short stories by single authors is the uneveness in the quality.

Maybe this is the great, unacknowledged truth. Except for the masters, it's incredibly hard for even good writers to keep up the standard. Most albums are the same, after all, the single, a couple of other goodies, and the rest okay-for-the-fans. In a novel the story keeps you going through the less-than-amazing bits, but in a collection, a duff story is a complete let-down.

Emma

I must say, I'm not a huge fan of short story compilations by one author - much prefer to read a single piece in, say, The New Yorker, or dip in and out of an anthology with works by a variety of people. Reading a collection by the same writer makes me feel that somehow the short stories *should* have been mooulded into a longer work. I particularly found this reading one of Peter Carey's collections...

<Added>

mooulded? writing takes a bovine turn...

I actually believe that a short story is harder to write than a novel.

I've heard this before and for some individual writers I'm sure it's true. But from my experience writing a novel is vastly harder than a short story - not least because it's months, maybe even years of investment. That's before you've got onto plot and sub-plot, pacing, the different voices, consistency etc.

Just thought I'd drop that in.

Well, I'd say children's fiction is keeping the art of the short story alive, especially the folk and fairytale - but then that genre is out of fashion too <sigh>

But from my experience writing a novel is vastly harder than a short story - not least because it's months, maybe even years of investment

Yes. That's true. But for me, it's still easier than a short story. In my life, I have started about ten short stories and one novel. The novel was the only one I managed to finish.



<Added>

Are folk and fairy tales out of fashion? Oh, I'm sad about that. Did you ever read Terry Jones' fairytales? I think they were published in the 80s, and they are truly brilliant.


<Added>

A compilation of short stories I can recommend is 'The Faber Book of Stories About Childhood.' It's full of great stories written from the perspective children (obviously).

Actually, I think there is a very good short fiction market out there. I write genre fiction so maybe I have a warped view as there are more genre short fic publications. Genre collections also sell well. Neil Gaiman's latest 'Fragile Things' is selling extremely well.

For all short fiction though, I've found the site duotrope.com simplifies finding a market because you can fill out what length your story is and what range of payment you're looking for...etc. It's also free.

The theme calendar though is where I personally have found the most success. Writing directly to theme is always the easiest way to sell short fic.

lammi...

The time factor is very important to me. I can spend anything from a few minutes to a few weeks worrying at a short story, and its done, at least in a form good enough, sometimes to send out.

I work on several at once, sometimes.

So if they get mowhere, Ive only invested a short time in the work.

When you get to my age, the thought of spending a year or two on something that statistics say will never get further than my own computer, is such an awful one.

(and no... Im far too proud to self-publish)



Crazyforeigner.

Duotrope is wonderful. So much so that I send them the odd contribution now and again.

Its great to hear that the market can be made to work!