This will probably end up in Emma's quotation box, but...

What I'd like to know is, What is it about alienation that drives your writing (or any creative act, for that matter)? Is it a wish to create a new world where you can belong at least for the time you're writing? Or is it a wish to communicate, to reach the world from which you've been cut off? Or is it a wish to prove to the world that you don't actually need it, as you've got this thing, this imagination, that's all your own? Or is it something else entirely?

It's a bit puzzling, really. I imagine a person who turns completely inward and has nothing at all to do with the world wouldn't yearn to get published, preferably to critical acclaim, with some posthumous fame into the bargain. And yet, it seems to me that's precisely what most writers dream about! (Myself included.)

<Added>

It didn't end up in the quotation box! How delightful.

I don't think it's any of those. It's simply that you have to be alone and calm to access your subconscious, which is where the creativity comes from.

And also I think it's the fact that most artists seem to naturally feel a bit set apart. To quote Emma from earlier:

I know that I've never felt I quite belonged either in my rather peculiar family, or in the world.

. That's exactly how I feel.

Cath

<Added>

And that natural feeling of being set apart means that we don't mind long periods of isolation in front of a computer screen.

Alienation does have a specific meaning in the field of theatrical writing.

However one can understand with Ian the many reasons that give rise to his feeling of alienation; his experience has been unique and dramatic. It is no surprise when I read that this drives his writing.

With most writers (as with most people) I think this 'apartness' manifests itself in the form of realising one's identity and individuality, even extending to thoughts of mortality and the complicated reactions that face one when death of oneself occupies the grey matter.

However I am also of the opinion that this realisation, that one is an individual and truly 'alone' in this world, can be a great source of drive, inspiration and certainly creativity. Not a single person in the whole world is thinking what I am thinking at this moment in Time. The need to 'share' is very strong and, in the writer, this sharing is through the creativity of the written word.

Len

That's a hilarious posting...
I laughed out loud...
one wonders what may be the driving force behind your third novel...
Rev.Two-Sheds (part time member)

<Added>

WHOOPS.. MAYBE THE ABOVE READS AS IF I THINK THE ORIGINAL POSTING IS HILARIOUS ...
WHEN ACTUALLY I'M REFERING TO THE REPLY FROM SOMEONE ELSE WHO SAID THAT THEIR FIRST NOVEL WAS DRIVEN BY ALIENATION AND THE SECOND BY NARCOTICS AND SATANISM...
i'm not all that computer literate so please excuse the fact that i dont know how to get off this page to find out who wrote that...
rEV.TWO-SHEDS

Not arf!
Alienation, social disenfranchisement, cyniscm about purveying trends, isolation, banal T.V., myopian utopias etc. etc. that I observe within the varied strata of human relations/society and so on, drives the majority of my output too... not just my own feelings, but also those that i rightly or wrongly observe in others around me or in various media expungements... it also drives me to distraction on occasion and often, if i'm not too careful I can end up producing reams of diatribe that rightly should end up in the bin...
However, I feel that it is always most important, and above all healthy to remember, that it is of utmost importance to be able to 'take the rise' out of such feelings and observations within ones creative output. Even if you do not intend to let anyone else see you take the mickey out of it all, don't let such feelings drive you into the ground, as in my experience they can often give the ol' grey maze quite a pounding and bring a sharp halt to any worthy output whatsoever, if you catch my drift.
Whether it's the 'trends' or the purveyors of such trends,.. whatever it is that makes you feel alienated, just don't let the ******** grind you down !!!
This is just a quick blurt as I am in an aweful rush but I hope you at least get the knub of where i'm coming from on this ...
I write poetry/prose/music,... used to do a lot of extremely alienated/isolatry cartoons/painting in a now-defunct international 'art group'and so on. I also perform/compere etc...
Anyway, now you are a member of this crew, maybe you won't feel quite so alienated, not that alienation doesn't have it's positive benefits of course...
blah blah blah
regards
rev.two-sheds@hotmail.com
(temporary member)

EmmaD suggests that 'Will Self' is one of those names that you'd ne'er have the nerve to use as a fictional character,
...wish i'd thought of it.
I seem to have become stuck with names like Bobby'the Custard' Thicksaddle, The Emin of Margate, Jocasta Thirstone, Baron Von Quirkenstein, Dame Ian Hearse, Dr. Halfwitzki - to name but a few...
wish I'd come up with something as good as Will Self..
Ooooh that's an idea...
how about...
...
oh no...
That's a bit rude...
Rev.Two-Sheds (temporary member)

I think it's wonderful to find a group of people who see the world as I do, as though you are merely an observer rather than a player. I've spent my entire life on the sidelines, at school, at home, I never belonged. This meant that I not only learned about human nature by being able to watch others as a dispassionate observer, I was able to spend time inside my own head. It's a pretty scary place, but it has made me the writer I am. I keep getting told by people that my writing can be too depressing. I think they just don't like looking at the world from my side of the glass.

IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT SOMETIMES OUTSIDERS MAKE THE BEST PLAYERS OF ALL...
rev.two-sheds

Ooh no Rev I’m afraid they really don’t like outsiders on this site, no matter how well you play the game sir.

Alienation drives all sorts of things, but come now people no point in being pretentious about it! Old friend says:

“that one is an individual and truly 'alone' in this world, can be a great source of drive, inspiration and certainly creativity. Not a single person in the whole world is thinking what I am thinking at this moment in Time. The need to 'share' is very strong and, in the writer, this sharing is through the creativity of the written word.”

Now that assumes a lot, that you are unique and truly alone, not just another well evoluted ape pondering his worthless existence on this amazing magma rock. I think you have plenty of company old friend, if you look around, there’s flippin billions of us! No so alone then…Also that Time is a title and not a concept! Mr Time? Old Father? Or maybe just an endless line forming a dimension of a reality that rational thinking people have kindly constructed for us while the rest of us ask stupid questions.

Reminds me of that great great TV programme on Channel 4 last night. Dawkins is spot on I believe, okay so maybe religion isn’t responsible for all bad things, but then the point of morality being part of evolution and NOTHING to do with religion was so well made I nearly cheered! That is, a load of stories made up by said isolated creative person driven probably by mass alienation, should not be used as any kind of “truth”. See like what I did there, old friend, you “make” things sound as if they have “resonance” by sticking some quotation “marks” around them. Wizard!

Alien Nations Drive My Writing??

Well who says anything drives anything other than a desire to get published and make a load of cash? Ah forget published, I mean just make a load of cash? CASH CASH CASH. That’s what makes things tick, the dollar. Oil mixed with dollars = power. I’d say a concentration of either works.

Hemingway – consider him. Farewell to Arms. Would you publish it anyone if there is anyone who is here that is on the Other Side? No of course you wouldn’t, you don’t recognize anything but currency, the currency of words = money = power. Hemingway wouldn’t stand a chance, Pinter would be ostracized, Joyce would be locked up.

Only one things drives any writing now and lets not pretend otherwise, coz even if, that’s EVEN IF, one of you wrote Farewell To Arms, which I doubt, but even if.

Even if you did it’d be rejected then rejected then rejected. If not, they’d make you change it. Too wordy, okay so I haven’t read it but its too fucking wordy so bury it give up and please show in David Beckham will ya on the way out? Oh not Beckham I mean that guy who writes all my biographies for me.

Now I know what yer thinking, this man is a bitter fool! No not at all, not at all. I came to this site for help, but not bitter, I don’t care. You see sites and clubs don’t get you published. I’ve never had a rejection. Get that! Coz you got to know when you write that it’ll never be good enough, you can maybe get close though, and that’s gonna take you a long long time. Then, they might consider publishing!

Right so bored now so goodbye forever and good luck, I reckon you gonna have a few on here that make it big so get scrapping!

Oh yeah by the way all that is probably bullshit but you can’t say I never tried people. We could have been buddies…

eh?

that in response to the previous post by Space Cadet...

It's hard not to feel alienated when you spend a lot of time on your own in front of a computer. Also, there is something alienating about observing and taking notes at all times. I saw a film called 'Jarhead' yesterday, in which the main character 's alienation was signalled by his reading a Camus novel, 'L'Etranger', but it wasn't very convincing. It gave him more credibility that that he was a gay cowboy in 'Brokeback Mountain' so recently.Did you see the Prime Minister trying to be a Rock Promoter in a TV programme last night? That was him pretending to be alienated. I think a lot of men are attracted to the idea of rebellion and have 'tough guy' heroes, like, as in Blair's case, Mick Jagger. Blair doesn't seem to be able to get over his infatuation for 'edgey' characters, which all too often means 'corrupt'. No wonder he seems such a bad judge of character.

Sheila

Yes, but Blair is clearly under the spell of a certain bog witch.

JB

I hadn't thought of that, it's true, but the years shown in the TV prog were before he met up with his wife. Maybe she's another symptom of his wish to be on the fringe of 'hard ' life - what with her rackety Liverpool connections on her father's side, at the same time hedging his bets because she had secure earnings potential ahead. I think one of the disadvantages of a coddled childhood is that it is rather dull and uneventful and possibly makes the recipient feel cut off from what they feel is the life of 'real' people. Just a theory.

Sheila

Sheila, it might just be a theory, but it's a good theory. I saw the programme too. The Blairs never felt alienated because they were never allowed to. They had to go to university. Now they have everything, and they can feel as alienated as they want. Bad news for the rest of us. Never suppress your childhood alienation, or otherness, I say.

But it's worse to never have been yourself when young, only to realise you were actually okay when you're older (ie when it's too late). Sadly the Blairs were obviously not, how shall I put it, 'right', from the off, and never stood a chance in Jagger's world. That's why they're such weird freaks now.

I heard Douglas Coupland (Microserfs, Generation X) say he saw photos of himself when young, and he thought he was cool. He could have been anything. At the time though, he thought he was odd.

Similarly, John Peel was born into a privileged world, and had to fight his way out of it. I'm reading his book.

Ian Duncan Smith