I feel a deep sense of alienation drives my writing. Does anyone else feel this way too?

Alienation from what?

Emma

No, depression, disillusionment and anger drive my writing.

Emma, if you have to ask that question, you're obviously not alienated.

Frances

LOL!

I think it's healthy to be at odds with your environment if you're a writer.

'Alienated' translates from Latin into Anglo-Saxon as 'othered-ness'. I think I was asking, what does Ian (and everyone else) feel they are other than?

I feel 'other than' a lot of the world I see around me - why else do you think I write historical fiction? Not because I want to live then - heaven forbid - but because I don't feel qualified to write about now.

Thanks to Philip Larkin, I know it was my parents' fault: I grew up without TV (or radio except Radio 3)

Emma

Certainly it was alienation that propelled me through my first novel. Alienation, a good deal of anger, and of course, the obligatory self-loathing.

My second novel was all down to narcotics and satanism. A vast improvement.

JB

I think it's healthy to be at odds with your environment if you're a writer.

I suspect it might be a pre-requisite. There aren't many semi-autobiographical novels in which the narrator is the popular centre of the high-achieving and socially acceptable group. It must be something about developing the habit (perforce, perhaps) of standing back and seeing everything around you as 'other'.

Emma

Yes, it's a sense of 'outside of' and 'othered-ness' from everyone else. It's also hierarchical. I'm sure it's nothing new for writers to feel alienated. I guess it's the opposite of feeling special, or super-confident, or better than. I presume it's a reaction against the prevailing sense of superiority, of being looked down on, which I'm sure is natural too.

It's a good point about not feeling qualified to write about now. History gives me a sense of my place, who I am, where I am, but the conclusion is that I have to get right outside, and develop that feeling because I'm sure about it. Is this how it's meant to be? Have you consciously worked with alienation, or consciously avoided it, and how did you get along? (Sounds like a Customs check on the borders of Writersland, yoiks)

Ian

All the best artists and musicians seem to have a rotten time, so why should writers get off light?

I subscribe to Waxlyricals ideal. My current kids book is all satanism and narcotics (well - prescribed antidepressants, but it you get enough... weheeeeyyyyy).

Speaking of such things, I got bored with the Potter boy after year-two. Has he smoked a joint yet or got Hermione drunk at a party?

I think trilogies should be done the same way film trilogies are done - the publisher owns the rights and takes tenders for the scripts. I'm currently reading Melvin Burgess. I can't help wondering what he'd have done if they'd passed Harry Potter onto him.

Colin M

History gives me a sense of my place, who I am, where I am, but the conclusion is that I have to get right outside, and develop that feeling because I'm sure about it. Is this how it's meant to be? Have you consciously worked with alienation, or consciously avoided it, and how did you get along?

Yes, I think that's true about the sense of place. I think as a writer you do need to cultivate that detachment, but if you're too alienated from something, you can't write it properly - you have to have some kind of emotional apprehension of what makes it tick.

I know that I've never felt I quite belonged either in my rather peculiar family, or in the world. I don't want to write about what I know (which is peculiar), and I don't feel qualified to write about anything else. Add in a painful anxiety not to tread on any of a multitude of toes - class, colour, creed - and history's the only option, really. It's oddly liberating to be let loose within a structure of unarguable fact.

Emma

Yes Colin. I hope JK Rowling forgives me for saying this, but she hasn't got the first clue about teenagers. It shows glaringly in her writing. So HP has 'evolved' as a character because now he's a bit more sarcy and childish? Nah.

I like my teenagers to do the stuff teenagers do. Get drunk. Have awkward fumbles in the school sheds. Throw whities. Try drugs. Fight. Wank. Feel suicidal. Steal. The list goes on. Certainly I remember my teen years well enough to avoid turning my teens into 'goodie two shoes'.

JB

Well I should update my stand on Melvin Burgess. I got past halfway and had to throw the book at the wall. The novel in question was "Junk" which started so well, but it soon becomes apparent that there is no story, no plot. In brief: Boy and girl run away, try booze, dope, then a few more drugs, a bit more alcohol, try stealing, find some wilder friends and so on and so on. No real conflict, just things happen, and its a "slippy slope" because each step is just a small step, but that's all you get for you money. It's quite shocking in places, but that's still not enough. At least there was a love triangle on Grange Hill with Zammo and Jackie, and a load of subplots and comedy in "Trainspotting" but this... it feels like the author is trying to be controversial just for the sake of it.

To prove the point, I skipped ahead to the end of the book and wasn't surprised at what I found. It's like a bloody Government Information Ad for teenagers.

I think there is definitely room for teenagers experimenting, but it should be part of the story, not the whole bloody book. The Butterfly Tattoo is a far better novel.

...and so, a slight addendum to my earlier point. I'd like to see what Will Self would do with Harry Potter.

Colin M

'Will Self' is one of those names that you'd never have the nerve to use for a fictional character.

Sorry, off topic.

Emma