Hi

Following a query relating to two differing assessments on my work, I submitted a post on the synopsis group and was given some valuable feedback.

As a consequence, I decided to take one-to-one tution with the person who had given the realistic feedback in line with other comments. I thought it would be better taking tution with a well-known author, whose feedback seemed to tally with others (I would like to say, at this point, that the synopsis comments were constructive).

My tutor is excellent at demonstrating where my work fails - but I don't have a clue what successful work looks like. She is a successful author and clearly knows her stuff as I have been shown where my work waffles, is too long, etc - which is great.

However, I don't know what to do now. I'm desperate to get back the passion for my work, but I feel nothing. I loved the story I worked on - but, on the surface, I feel it is rubbish. Underneath, I do feel there is something there.

My tutor suggested I should write Mills and Boon (apparently I can write good sex), but - after taking out three books and not being able to read one - I know I can't do it.

I've joined the Beginners Group to start again - I genuinely feel I want to write but I can't. I've sat here for four days wanting to post something but each time I've stopped as I am really worried about it (not wanting the truth I guess!). I have other story ideas, but don't want to give this one up, even though I am told by my tutor that I should.

I don't know exactly what I am expecting from this post - so apologies for this 'sob' story - but I guess I am asking what to do. Has anyone felt so passionate about their story - had really positive comments and really, really negative comments and managed to come through? Is it better, as my tutor suggests, to bin the whole thing and start again. And, finally, how do you tell what is good writing?

Even if you don't respond, it is great to get this off my chest!

Sharley

Hi Sharley

Great to see that you've joined the Beginners group (me too). It's a terrific group to be a part of and I think, if you can bring yourself to take the leap and get involved, you'll find it invaluable. Everyone in the group is very friendly and supportive and comments recieved are very useful and constructive. I think we are all learning a lot from each other and in Jane Elmore, who is a site expert involved with the group, we are fortunate enough to have the input of a published novelist who is generous with her time, expertise and encouragement.

I lurked for a long time before I joined and was very hesitant in posting work or commenting on other peoples work, but once I started I didn't look back, and the whole experience has done wonders for my self-confidence. So, my advice is take a deep breath and post something in the group. I can promise you won't regret it!

As to what constitutes good writing... I think this is largely subjective. One can read excellent prose but not be engaged, or one can be totally caught up in a narrative that ignores every "rule" of grammar. Personally, if I forget that I'm reading, I feel the writing's as good as it gets!

Look forward to seeing you in Beginners!

Mand

Hi, Sharley, I remember that plot outline you posted in the S&O Group and I thought it had the potential of being a very good thriller - your passion for it certainly came through.

I've been through the lack of confidence thing, so I made the effort to join my local CW course - evening classes once a week - and found the combination of a supportive and highly experienced tutor, a great group of fellow writers, and a range of writing exercises and short stories (so I didn't have to show extracts of my wip, which is still in shitty first draft mode and so not yet ready for public consumption) have helped to restore my confidence.

I think the role of a tutor is, in part, supportive, so she should be pointing out what is good in your work, as well as what needs work, so you can learn to tell the difference. Sometimes I think we writers do need to be told more of the positive, than anything negative, as we beat ourselves up enough about our work without needing someone to do it for us, and a good tutor/mentor should know when the balance has tipped too far in the wrong direction. Maybe you should have a word with her and explain how you're feeling.

All the best,

NaomiM

Hi Sharley,
My heart went out to you when I read your post. Sounds like you are in a very uncomfortable place. And if you've lost your passion, then something is not right. Because your passion is your energy and your enthusiasm and your guide, and it's really important. Believe in that.
No-one - NO-ONE - knows more about what works for you than you. It sounds as if you've lost trust in your own knowing - but I'm glad to hear that you feel there is something good going on with your story underneath.
Personally, I think most people learn best through encouragement and through practice - and so it's really important to create the kind of space for yourself which encourages you to practice, because that's how your writing will progress. Emma Darwin (site expert) talks about the 'shitty first draft', and I think it's vital to remember this and just write. And don't let anyone persuade you otherwise. Good writing takes years to learn, but that doesn't mean there's nothing good about what you're doing now.
If Mills and Boon isn't your thing, then great: you know one more piece of information about yourself as a writer. I think mostly we tend to write what we read most of - so what do you read most? That will probably be where you passion and strengths lie as a writer.
Keep going. It's a rough old road sometimes, but it will get better.
Susiex

Sharley, I think this is incredibly common. We're so used to being taught that it can take you by surprise how hard it is to hear things about your creative work, particularly if you're not sure if what you've been told is right or not - it's not quite like your maths teacher telling you that 2 + 2 doesn't = 5, is it?

You wrote something with passion, and re-wrote it and worked on it, and it was as good as you could get it, and said something you wanted to say. Then someone whose opinion you respect says it's not as good as it could be, which hurts, and makes you question your own judgement. And it can be very hard, even with good feedback which you think is actually true, to know what to do.

Then you try to work on it and you get to what I call the ugly duckling stage: your confidence in your own judgement of what's good has had a big blow, you've got some ideas of what isn't working but you're not sure what to do about it, or whether you'll know when you've got it right, your technical knowledge has taken a step up, but it hasn't integrated into the intuitive side of how you write so everything you write is awkward and self-conscious, and your passion leaks away..

But don't forget that once upon a time, when you were six, you couldn't write a story with passion and correct spelling - if you went for one, the other fell apart. In the end, you got there, and you will get there on this, too, I promise, because we all do.

The opinion you had may be an experienced opinion, and obviously some of it has been spot on for you. But in my experience feedback is often spot on about what's not working, but is can be way off-beam about what's right for you to do about it. Mills & Boon certainly doesn't sound right for you. If you can write sex well, though, that's a good sign because it's extremely hard to do, and those skills will stand you in good stead whatever you end up writing, and whether or not it included sex scenes.

I would suggest that you don't bin this piece, but you do put it aside for now: at the moment you don't know where you are with it. Try writing something else, something very open-ended that doesn't have too much riding on it. You're not in the right place to work on the original project, but it's not going anywhere: it'll still be there when you can come back to it. If there's something good at the heart of the story you've got, you'll be able to come back to it, and know what it needs.

The other thing which helps is to feed your writing brain by reading, lots. Not necessarily all the kind of thing you want to write - in certain moods that can be daunting, though it's essential the rest of the time. But reading reminds you why you write, and if you had the passion before, I'd put money on you waking up one day and thinking, 'NOW I know what that story needs!' and happily diving in again.

Emma

Thank you all. Your comments have been really helpful - as always - and make me feel a bit lighter about it all.

I guess I was anxious, as I want to start writing again - but I don't want to spend time writing more poorly constructed material (if I can help it!).

Have a lovely day.

Sharley

Then you try to work on it and you get to what I call the ugly duckling stage: your confidence in your own judgement of what's good has had a big blow, you've got some ideas of what isn't working but you're not sure what to do about it, or whether you'll know when you've got it right, your technical knowledge has taken a step up, but it hasn't integrated into the intuitive side of how you write so everything you write is awkward and self-conscious, and your passion leaks away

Emma, this totally describes where I'm at, at the moment. Especially 'everything you write is awkward and self-conscious'!
Susiex

I guess I was anxious, as I want to start writing again - but I don't want to spend time writing more poorly constructed material (if I can help it!).

It's usually best to accept that it will be poorly constructed, initially, until you've spent time reworking it. I find it takes me a couple of hours to write 1500 words, but a couple of weeks of reworking until I'm satisfied with it, and even then it might not be used. So don't let the initial fear of failure stop you from writing.

awkward and self-conscious

I think the only thing you can do with this phase is write through it.

There's a good analogy with something where the craft and intuitive skill element is more obvious: wood-carving, say. You don't expect to handle a knife naturally and fluently straight away, so that your first decoy duck is indistinguishable from the real thing. But you won't get any better unless you keep carving: your hand-eye-muscle-control systems can only learn by doing it. So you have to accept making some wonky ducks along the way to mastery. But the wood and the time and the effort aren't wasted: they're part of the process.

And, actually, you could argue that the degree to which you're thrown is a measure of just how much you've learnt, and how fast: a little bit of learning can creep into you without you really noticing, but a whole lot can knock you for six.

Hm, too many metaphors. And I can feel a blog post coming on.

Emma

<Added>

And as I heard Grayson Perry and Ian Bostridge agreeing, one of the problems in craft is anxiety, because it tightens your muscles. It's not as obvious as it is in ceramics or singing, but it still messes up our writerly judgement.

one of the problems in craft is anxiety, because it tightens your muscles.

Exactly - and any kind of contraction seems to contract one's ability to 'open up' and trust.
Oh well, back to my wonky duck.
Susiex

I think I wanted to hear the words 'let it go' - which, indirectly, I have. I desperately wanted my work to be successful, but have to accept I am not at that stage yet. I would love to come back to my book one day and be able to make a workable novel from it. I really think the material could work - one day. There is a real reason why I want this book to make it.

However, my tutor was brilliant after I asked for a change in direction. I still don't know where I am good in my writing, but can now see the way forward (a bit cryptic but true). From the comments made in this thread, I was able to ask for a change in the way the tutoring was approached.

I gave my new idea to my tutor and she has encouraged me to go forward with it. Fingers-crossed no.2 will be better written and more readable! Prologue/chapter one going online on the beginner's group very soon.

Best wishes

Sharley

P.S. May well add some of the first book's chapters - just to gauge more feedback. Especially as the constructive advice on this forum can be so good!





<Added>

Susie - from what you are saying 'the wonky duck' may be the norm...

What about asking your tutor to give you three things that she/he thinks work in your writing? I think often people only point out the problems and take what works for granted.
Susiex

Good idea! We've agreed I will take the new material for assessment on an ad hoc basis, so knowing the strengths in the new material would be really useful. Thank you.

Sharley

It sounds as if a big part of the problem is that, although you accept that you need to 'let it go' in order to get on with the new work, you don't actually want to. You feel that the original story and your need to deal with it properly are going to be nagging at you all the time, preventing you from committing properly to the new project.

So, here's a thought. Why not set a date for yourself, not too soon, when you will revisit the old story and take a new look at how it ought to be? For example, 'On September 1st, 2011 I'll undertake a review of the latest draft and consider how it might be improved or handled differently. I will not look at it again until that date.'

This deals with the nagging thoughts because you now have a firm arrangement - you know that it will definitely be taken care of but you no longer need to worry about it right now. This gives you the 'closure' that you probably need in order to commit to something else. The important thing is to substitute a specific date for a vague intention. It's the sort of suggestion you might find in a self-help book, but the principle is probably sound!

Chris

<Added>

P S Must remember to follow my own advice one day...

Hi Sharley

I hope this doesn't add to your confusion, but is it possible you've taken on intensive tutoring too soon? It's one thing to love writing and join a group - get bits of feedback from peers and tutor every fortnight whilst listebning to and learning form the work of others - their success and failures. But one to one is like a master class, and to get the most form that one needs a sense of where one's going in the first place - a degree of confidence.

From what you say, I wonder if backing away from the tutor for now and just writing as much as you can in a style that brings joy and energy to you as a writer might be more productive. once you get a stronger sense of your writing self, your voice, a one to one might be more inspiring. Even the aptest criticism in the world is useless if it shrivels you.

<Added>

excuse typos - just got back from cub scout camp and my brain has been smoked alive.