Is it a good idea, when creating antagonists, or villians for stories to make them sympathetic to an extent? Personally, I hate villains who are just evil for the sake of being evil. I prefer it if the villain has a clear motive for his actions (such as revenge, etc), but I also think it's important for the audience to sympathsis with him to a certain extent, so that even if they think his actions are horrible, they can understand him/her.

Anyone else think this?

There was a really good thread about this a while back.

I think this is the link:
http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/65_238985.asp

Yes, I like the chief antagonist to be just as well rounded as the chief protagonist. There are very few truely evil people in the world, and, contrary to popular fiction, they rarely hold any positions of power. Even Hitler, Mao and Stalin were adored by otherwise perfectly sane people.



- NaomiM

Thanks for that PoppyV I'll check it out.

To put the other side of the argument, especially if you're writing in first person, we can all project shadow qualities onto other people and see them as pretty wicked/nasty at times. And when this is happening, it's hard to see their nicer side. Isn't it the same with 'baddies'? If we're seeing them through the eyes of the protagonist, there's no reason why they can't appear all-bad - though, for me, if later in the book they begin to show human qualities, I feel more affected by what they do. In fact, the more all-bad they appear at the beginning, the more affected the reader will be when the 'baddie' shows he's not all bad.
Ooh, I've just argued myself in a circle.
Susiex

I think it's essential to give the 'hero' some flaws and the 'villain' some redeeming qualities - so much more fun?

Sarah

I think it's essential to give the 'hero' some flaws and the 'villain' some redeeming qualities - so much more fun?

I agree, Sarah. After all, humans themselves have flaws that don't always make them good or bad. I don't see any reason why characters in stories shouldn't.

If an antagonist is somebody who tends to thwart the aims of the protagonist, a more sympathetic instance could be a protagonist who is fundamentally a 'goody' and on the protagonist's side, but whose personality problems, weaknesses, stupidity in certain areas, stubbornness or whatever, have the unintended effect of constantly undermining the best efforts of the protagonist. Such an antagonist can be just as much a danger to the satisfactory outcome of the story as an out-and-out villain. He/she is likely to be a person very close to the protagonist (a spouse or partner even) and the reader's attitude to him/her, while tinged with exasperation, will probably be sympathetic, in line with the bond that exists between the two characters themselves.

Chris

Good point Chris. I personally think a good example of how a good protagonist/antagonist relationship is Marvel comics characters. Particularly the Spider-Man/Green Goblin relationship.

In the early years, Green Goblin (or rather norman Osborne) was a very twisted and nasty piece of work, constantly trying to hurt spider-man (even killing his first girlfriend Gwen Stacy). But yet they always had a kind of mutal respect for each other to an extent. Also, SPider-Man was best friends with HArry Osborn (the Goblin's Son) and Norman was stuggling to keep a good relationship with him (due to his son being a drug addict and him being a workaholic). Over time, the Goblin/Spider-Man relationship got more intense because Goblin was driven insane with his will to defeat Spider-Man, but in the early years, they were a perfect match for each other as they could always meet each other on the same level.

At least, that's the impression I always got. But it just goes to show how a hero can really find themselves when they go up against a good villain.

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However, on the other side of the scale, we have the Joker/Batman relationship. The Joker for me (if you ignore the clownish aspects of him in the sixties and so on) has always been a totally psychotic character with no redeeming features that I can think of and has no empathy about killing people. He has caused Batman so much grief over the years, but Batman has never once killed him because he never wants to become the thing he hunts. That kind of relationship is also good, because you have the hero that has morals and the villain that has none. That kind of underlines the heroic aspects of them.