Interesting blog post on BookEnds today about the importance of your scenes moving the plot forward, and a warning about "coffee chatter":

http://bookendslitagency.blogspot.com/2008/09/moving-plot-forward.html

It was Katelynn, our assistant, who actually pointed out that writing courses can be a real hindrance to writers when it comes to novel building. As a student with a number of creative writing courses under her belt, she would know. She pointed out that teachers and professors will frequently encourage writers to sit and “have coffee” with their characters; that by writing a scene in which characters do little but chat you’ll learn a lot about who they are. And that’s certainly true and fabulous advice for getting a handle on who your characters are, but not great advice for how to write a novel. Once you’ve written that coffee chat scene, my suggestion is put it into a character file and start the book.

- NaomiM

I'm not so sure that the thrust of the creative writing industry practitioners is usually pointed in the direction she indicates. Most of them have become so manic about show-don't-tell that their students are terrified to include anything even slightly descriptive or explanatory, let alone a scene that doesn't take the plot forward.

I'd say that the occasional scene that's peripheral to the mechanics of the plot is quite acceptable provided (a) that it is short and interesting and (b) that it genuinely contributes to the reader's grasp of the atmosphere or environment or (c) that it deepens our understanding of the character/s in some way. Of course there are risks in it, but a fleshless plot can be less than absorbing too.

On the other hand, I agree that 'coffee chatter' is disastrous - a sure-fire switch-off. If you can't communicate the character stuff through dialogue that is a meaningful part of the plot, forget it. Even the plot-related dialogue needs to be much more sparing than in real life.

Interesting blog.

Chris

Funnily enough I went to my first creative writing course class, today, and you're right about the manic 'show-don't-tell' bit. The tutor - who is lovely, enthusiastic, and thoroughly committed to her students and the subject of writing - chanted it like a mantra, complete with hand gestures!
However, she did not do the 'have a coffee with your characters' exercise. Instead she handed round MBIT questionnaires so each of us could work out our own characters, and then choose one of the 16 character types to base a character on, and write about them in the middle of a crisis. Then we swapped with our neighours, read through what they had written, and had to expand on it, choosing an age, sex, name, occupation, etc for their character. It was very interesting. Especially when my character - typical helpless husband - was turned into a 30-something female worried that her husband was having an affair!
Can't wait for next week's class.



- NaomiM

You have to find out about your characters somehow, but the coffee scene shouldn't be in the book, any more than the list of characteristics should.

Naomi, that sounds fun. I think it can work really well to get reasonably experienced students to work with someone else's start-up material - it pushes you out of the things you normally do and try.

Emma

it pushes you out of the things you normally do and try.

Well she did talk about pushing us out of our comfort zones, so it'll be interesting to see what she comes up with next. The only thing I couldn't get along with was the music she put on to 'inspire' us during the writing exercise. Normally I write in silence, or with the TV on, at most, (when the kids are home), but having a repetative beat going on behind me, and chatter off to the side of me, and I just couldn't think, so I turned it off - which earned me a disaproving look and a 'somebody needs an early nigtht' comment when the tutor came back in. - of course, if she'd seen my MBTI personality type, she'd have known I'd do that.



- NaomiM

MBTI?

Am with you re the music!!! I can't do anything at all which involves engaging the brain with music, especially pop music, on. Eek eek.

show-don't-tell that their students are terrified to include anything even slightly descriptive or explanatory,

This really rings a bell. I was reading an unpublished novel the other day, which was basically an excellent piece of writing, but it was so hard to work out what was going on and why people were doing things. He did too much showing, not enough telling. It can happen.

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I can't write with music on either. But maybe that was you being pushed out of your comfort zone?

I do write to music (though it has to be familiar, and nothing with words I can understand) but I wouldn't ever do it in a writing class - I know far too many writers who need silence. And I, too, would baulk at something with a beat. I'm slightly shocked that a writer teacher could be that undiscriminating.

Emma

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"or with the TV on"

Though that, for me, would be completely impossible. But I can't ignore a TV when it's on anywhere, not having been brought up with one.

MBTI - Myers-Briggs typology Indicator, (based on Jung), used by companies to work out if you've got extrovert, introvert, team leader, team player, intuitive, etc, personality traits.

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Here's a verson:

http://www.ashridge.org.uk/Website/Content.nsf/wELNPSY/Psychometric+Instruments+-+Myers-Briggs+Type+Indicator+(MBTI)?opendocument

I'm slightly shocked that a writer teacher could be that undiscriminating.

Her returning students seemed to have learnt to block it out, and she may have done it because she was taking one of the beginners aside while we were writing, and maybe she thought it would act as a 'screen' for their conversation. It didn't help that my head felt like it was full of cottonwool, having had a migraine the previous day.

Although I suspect none of her students had been so proactive before. I did ask the others if they wanted the music on, and there were two others who also needed silence to think, while most of the others said they hadn't realised it was on.

I think it depends what you mean by moving the plot forward - and it's also very genre dependent. I mean, yes, if this is going to be a vampire murder-and-mayhem story, then maybe you need to get on with the first spillage of blood. But what if you write in a genre where the main things that happen are women gently exploring their relationships and hang-ups over cups of coffee? I have dozens of scenes where people do little more than chat over coffee and feel a bit irritated/guilty/fraught (though there is usually at least some kind of sub-text or undercurrent).

My editor is always telling me, don't feel that Things Have To Happen in a book. (I am always tempted to throw in Big Shocking Events to keep the interest up - and she says, don't.) The analogy she gives is an early Carla Lane sit-com called 'Butterflies', where nothing happend at all except for tiny, tiny social intercations - many of them over coffee - and a woman never quite having an affair. Or 'The Royle Family' - ditto. If your subject matter is how people relate when they are having coffee, then the coffee scene doesn't have to be chucked out - it's absolutely central!

Rosy

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That's not to say, of course, that a scene should ever be static. Things have to move on, new elements be revealed. But it needn't necessarily be Stuff Happening in any external sense.

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As the article says:

Now, if that coffee chat is somehow discussing the state of the world you are building, clues from the mystery, or the heroine’s latest romantic adventure, in other words, if it’s moving the plot along, great. Keep it in.

It all comes down to the quality of the writing again, doesn't it? I could read a novel about someone baking a Victoria sponge if the writing held me.

Yes, Rosy, that's very true about genre. Character led novels can be full of gentle scenes where the different characters are gradually fleshed out.
The movie Meet Joe Black, starring Brad Pitt, Anthony Hopkins movie, was on Sky the other day, and my son (who loves shoot-em-up, action movies) sat down to watch it, but (despite it being one of my all time favorite movies) I warned him it would be far too long and too slow to keep his interest, full of long lingering looks, several food-related scenes (the cafe, the family dinners, the cold lamb sandwishes, the peanutbutter, the tea and cookies, the party), and, aside from the ending, very little real plot, but he was spellbound.



- NaomiM

Hello

... so manic about show-don't-tell that their students are terrified to include anything even slightly descriptive or explanatory, let alone a scene that doesn't take the plot forward

Hi - I'm on my second creative writing course (OU) and they're very pro this approach. However reading stories written like this can be like wading through concrete with very few 'gaps' for the reader to think or let the story breathe. Although I usually love American short stories, some of the more contemporary ones I've read which have been highly praised, are not enjoyable to read. I like prose which is written like butter. Sorry about all the analogies (but for the record, I find Salman Rushdie and Zadie Smith like rich fruit cake).

(But) ... it's an interesting article!

I find Salman Rushdie and Zadie Smith like rich fruit cake

Good analogy, Diane. I once read one of Zadie Smith's essays in The Guardian, and she never got to the point. Grrr.



- NaomiM