Just wondering what you think about this. I've been getting feedback from various sources on the opening chapters of my novel which I'm planning to submit soon. I would consider it to be more women's fiction in that it has a female MC and is much more a psychological drama than an action-based one and yet overall I think I'm getting a better response from men than women. The major point women bring up is that the MC is not likeable enough for them (she's not meant to be). I'm grossly generalising here but I just wondered what people thought of this. How important is it for you that the MC of a novel you're reading be likeable?

THat is a tricky one, ashlinn, because at the very least you are asking the reader to empathise with them - to understand their motives - so even if you don't like them, maybe you could say if you were in their position you would do the same thing. Disliking the MC doesn't make it a bad ms, though.
I believe one of the reasons why We Need To Talk About Kevin was rejected so many times, was because the character was unlovable, but ultimately compelling as the layers were stripped away so the reader understood what made them tick (Althoug I'm guessing here, based on book reviews, as I haven't actually read it.)
And probsbly the same could be said for 'Who's Afraid Of Virginia Wolf.'
If, however, you are asking a reader to be stuck in the equivalent of a crowded tube train with a perfectly obnoxious fellow traveller, then I'm sorry, but I'd be getting off at the next stop.

- NaomiM


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- although I am perfectly happy to be a voyeur at the domestic equivalent of a train crash.

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I don't know which one you have used, but it strikes me it would be less claustrophobic if the story was told in third person than the first. Then you provide the reader with a degree of distance between them and the MC.

I agree, Naomi, that there's 'likeable' and then there's 'interesting'. It just seemed to me that there was a difference between mens' and women's reactions to this issue and thinking back to books that appeal more to women, those that appeal more to men and those that cross over, I think that 'likeability' of the MC is one thing that differs. But maybe I'm just imagining that.


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My novel is written in the third person mostly from the MC's POV. But I was more interested in opinions on the general point rather than my specific situation.

Hi Ashlinn,
Was just reading the Vulpes interview with the chairwoman of the Romantic Novelists Association. She had this to say about heroines in romantic novels:

The thing they mostly have in common is ‘likeability’; they might be independent and even brazen but they’re generally nice too. Just occasionally you read a book where the heroine is a card-carrying bitch but usually you respect her for being so go-getting and end up liking her for being so single-minded. Think of Becky Sharp and Scarlett O’Hara.

But actually I'm not entirely sure I agree with this. As long as the character has some interesting traits, or is funny or complex, I'm quite happy to read on in the knowledge that she's likely to change during the course of the novel. Maybe it depends on the kind of book you're writing?
Susiex

I love unlikable characters. But I think there is definitely an idea that they have to be likable in particular genres. I think that's a bit of a shame though.

Perhaps you need to define what the reader views as likeability. With men, in action thrillers, the mean, half shaven, tactical, cold blooded assassin can be totally likeable - which is possibly the reason Lara Croft was such a big hit in the games market amongst men - and not, as some people assume - because of her tits and arse. Maybe it's fascinating for men to see women with male traits, when women would see through the facade in a second.

Well i think those in the know definitely think it is - an editorial agency told me give my MC more flaws so that readers could empathize with her - and an agent said my MC was too uptight - ie obviously she felt this would put off a reader of my genre.

I think the main thing for me, as a female reader though, is having something i can empathize with - which is probably why in my stories i always thread in exactly why the unsavoury characters are like they are - ie they've suffered in the past or whatever.

Susie, I think I quite agree with that quote you mentioned. I think that 'likeability' is a prerequisite for 'Women's Fiction'. When the heroines have faults, they are generally endearing faults like being awkward, clumsy, absent-minded, forthright or things like that. They tend not to have faults like bitterness, coldness, selfishness or as in the example Naomi quoted 'We need to talk about Kevin': not loving or even disliking their own child. These are faults that we have a harder time accepting in someone we like.

Personally I wouldn't put Gone with the Wind in Women's fiction in that it appeals to both men and women. Scarlett is a truly obnoxious heroine in that she is incredibly selfish: she steals her sister's fiancee, marries him, then when sends him into a situation where he is likely to be killed (and he is) because it doesn't suit her any more to be married to him. She abuses abominably the black slaves she has and the black workers she later employs. She neglects her children dreadfully, is an awful friend to Melanie and never at any point does she show the least sign of remorse nor does she change from the completely self-centered woman she is. She is a great, fascinating character but not one you'd want as a friend.

My impression is that men's fiction is not so hung up on the MC being likeable (maybe I'd define that as being someone you'd like to be friends with, Colin) and often the MC is actively dislikeable, like Coetzee's characters. Even James Bond is not exactly likeable, more admirable (from a male perspective, I think)

It's sometimes said that women's fiction focuses on 'domestic' matters but I don't think that quite so defining as the 'likeability' of the character. Doris Lessing's 'The Grass is Singing' is very domestic in its subject matter but all of the characters are throroughly dislikeable.

Sorry, I rambled on there but I thought it was an interesting point.

Casey, yes, I think the more clearly your novel is positioned as Women's Fiction the more difficult it is for the writer to have a dislikeable character.

As for empathy, there's positive empathy and negative empathy. For example I think we can all empathise with a mother who dislikes her own children because we have all felt that sometime even if for a very short time but it's an emotion we are uncomfortable with and we don't enjoy empathising on this level. On the other hand, there is a sense of positive empathy when a character makes an embarassing mistake or something like that.

Perhaps you need to define what the reader views as likeability. With men, in action thrillers, the mean, half shaven, tactical, cold blooded assassin can be totally likeable - which is possibly the reason Lara Croft was such a big hit in the games market amongst men - and not, as some people assume - because of her tits and arse. Maybe it's fascinating for men to see women with male traits, when women would see through the facade in a second

I agree with Colin's point. I can't see men liking an unlikable female MC if she was the whiney, introspective sort, which might remind them of their wives or mothers-in-law .
But a cold and calculating type, or an amoral-screw-everyone type, I guess they could empathise with one of those.


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- some men do, secretly, have a hankering to be dominated by a woman, albeit if only in fiction.

I agree with Colin's point. I can't see men liking an unlikable female MC if she was the whiney, introspective sort,

I think men go more for caricatures in realistic scenes; women go for characters in real scenes.

Are you talking about stereotypical characters, there, Colin?

Not so much stereotypes, but characters with exaggerated aspects to make that part of them larger than life, so easy to spot. It's a big generalisation, but I do think that women's fiction relies more on careful character development through their actions and responses, whereas in men's fiction you are given a character, told his "special feature" and then get on with the story. I'm really thinking about military action thrillers here - Matthew Reilly, Chris Ryan etc.

I can see how that would work for Lara Croft

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I have to admit as a teenager I loved the Clive Cussler books, and thrillers of that ilk, which gave you a character and then just got on with the action.

I think it depends on genre (and even sub-genre!). But my experience suggests that there are large swathes of commercial women's fiction where, yes, 'warmth', and having characters who are engaging and sympathetic is absolutely de rigueur. Doesn't have to mean fluffy and sweet, can mean mouthy and funny and loud, or chippy and a bit damaged - but absolutely NOT 'cold' or distantly cerebral or just plain nasty.

Rosy