Hiraeth: I was wondering how many of you plot a novel from start to finish before you get on with the writing? Or does anyone just start with their 'vague' idea and see where it takes them? With short stories the 'see where it takes you' approach seems to work for me, but is that too much of a risk with a novel? Should I have every detail nailed before I start? Any advice gratefully appreciated!

Like everyone else, I don't think that there's a "right" or "wrong" way of doing it - everyone finds their own comfort zone and uses what works best for them.

On a personal note, I used to start with a basic idea and then work out a very broad outline of what was going to happen in the plot, allowing the story to evolve as I wrote it. I've used this on short stories with some success and it was the approach I took for my current novel project but the problem I found with that was that I found I was writing without a clear direction as to what exactly my story was and as such I found it very difficult to keep going on the first draft as characters would tug me in different directions and I found it difficult to engage with my MC.

Having spent the best part of a year struggling on the project, I've ended up starting over from scratch because it just wasn't working for me. This time around though, I've produced a much more detailed outline setting out precisely what events are going to happen in my plot and what some of the motivating factors are for my characters. It's been a pretty long and intense exercise (in fact, it took 6 weeks to complete) but doing it threw up early on a lot of the issues I know I'm going to have to deal with, together with a number of logical inconsistencies that I've been able to resolve in advance.

I've literally just started writing the actual novel to the structure and so far, I'm finding it an easier and more enjoyable process than before because I've got a compass point to keep me in the right direction.

However, one thing I've been told is a problem with plotting in advance is that you can find it difficult to breathe life into your characters and situation - essentially, it can feel that you're writing to a formula, which robs you of certain spontaneity and makes the text feel stilted. I've tried to counter that by keeping some sections of the structure a little vague so I've got room to roam, but it is something that I'm trying to keep an eye on.

Hope some of that is useful.

G

However, one thing I've been told is a problem with plotting in advance is that you can find it difficult to breathe life into your characters and situation - essentially, it can feel that you're writing to a formula,

I wonder if this is why the characters in so many thrillers are so badly developed.

It wouldn't surprise me. Or at least that the drive to tell the story means they can't afford the time to go into nuances of character. Or aren't skilled enough writers to get those nuances across with real economy of means.

Emma

It could also be down to a style that has evolved with the genre. I mean, how about this...

In a bed-sit on the rotten side of town, McGrime slowly screwed the silencer onto his 9mm semi automatic pistol, caught himself in the mirror and raised himself to his full 6'4". He sniffed, then nodded, assured that the smell of his pasta sauce was so much better with fresh basil. Dried herbs just didn't cut it. It had to be fresh, hand picked basil, plum tomatoes and simply lashings of a good Cabernet Sauvignon, otherwise he might as just not bother.

Jeremy Clarkson would weep.

I think the problem with not planning, is that you can get stuck in a corner - the old writer's block. It doesn't matter how loose a plan is, at least with something in mind, you know the direction you're heading. If you prefer free style writing, then great, but by having just a sketchy plan helps you keep churning out the words. It isn't set in concrete, you can always alter the route you're taking, just so long as the new route also also has a road map.

I had the opposite problem with a script that I've reworked so many times it's just annoying. I had such a specific ending in mind that the chapters leading up to that felt like they were pushing the characters into position. It gave the whole thing a very unnatural feel because there were choices that had to be made that didn't feel natural at all.

The script is currently residing in the "old projects" folder. Though I do keep getting it out to see if it can be fixed.

Interesting question. I found that the suck it and see approach is a great conduit for creativity but when a deadline looms ( be it self imposed or otherwise) a day spent working out the mechanics of what you want and need to say is very useful and sometimes very illuminating. It certainly helps me focus. At a recent writers seminar Simon Kernick (Relentless etc) told of giving up on a half written book after dreaming of the plot to Relentless. He knew he only had six months to present his next MS and so spent the first month entirely on plotting, chapter by chapter.
It certainly worked for him - commercially at least.

Hello everyone,

I'm new too and thought I would join in with the discussion.

I think it's important to a degree to know where your plot is going, but to be prepared for some small changes along the way as many of you have already pointed out.

I'm currently working on the fourth chapter of my novel and have found the story structure illustrated in Christopher Vogler's 'The Writer's Journey' a particularly helpful way to mark out a lot of the key narrative points.

I think it's useful to know the major things that happen to a character before you start writing, to know where they go from their start in the story to their end, but, again, as many of you have said, not to know every minor detail.

Anwyay, thought I would say hello and start posting ASAP!

Hi, LMJT,

thought I would say hello and start posting ASAP!

Hi and welcome, hope you have fun here.
Take care
Tracy

Hello!

To answer the original question, I'm a thorough plotter - family trees, character studies, time lines, and for my first novel, a chapter by chapter breakdown of exactly what happened when. I needed that, though, because I had a lot of characters from different generations and it was important to keep track of them, to be able to pinpoint where each was up to at a given year. Knowing each chapter also enabled me to get most of the first draft done in 8 weeks, which was all I had before I went back to work. It actually freed me up creatively, because I could really get into the detail, and enjoy myself without having to cope with the burden of Where Is This Going?

I'd say my model for plotting has changed, though. For the novel I've just this week begun, I spent two weeks building up characters and background. My plot line is sketchier this time than it's been in the past (but probably still quite full by many people's standards).

I find these starting-up exercises both exciting and hard work, but, for me, they have to be done so I have the confidence and the impetus to move forward.

Just to reiterate, though, it's whatever works for you.

well all the stories ive half written ive always done the 'ill see where it takes me' approach. i always half write stories because when i ask for advice, i never get the answer id like. when i think its great, others dont think its great. it does knock my confidence, and i always think i should plan my stories out. but knowing me if i did that id end up going off track any way lol.

I think it would be a big mistake to attempt a novel without having a plan, BUT no plan has to be set in concrete, yet there should alway be a map to follow. I knew exactly where WITHOUT REPROACH was going when I set out, but I still made lots of changes on the way. I just altered the route map to suit.

My short stories were perhaps different. With some of the most successful I just sat at the keyboard and they came pouring out, but maybe I had a plan in my mind to start. Perhaps it's my engineering background, but I couldn't work without understanding why I was doing it. WOrking blind must be very frustrating. There are too many corners to get stuck in. - Anthony

Hello! I just wanted to add my ha'penny's worth to this because I think that graphic planning can help too. I'm not good at drawing but I have sketched a street map of the fictional village in my novel, so I don't forget where the buildings are in relation to each other, who lives where, also to keep a sense of the distances and dimensions. It was fun to do and provokes other plot ideas, as well as helping with things as simple as what a character sees when they look out of the window.