Does anyone ever get the feeling when they're writing that their words just aren't up to scratch? That somehow they fall short because what you imagine good writing to be isn't what you've just put down.

Somehow you build up the writing of others, but then when you pick a book which you admire up and leaf through it you realise that what you've done is raise the quality of that book in your minds eye to an unattainable level, only to realise that as good as it is it's nowhere near as perfect as you thought it was?

I often feel this way, Geoff. I think it's because we're human, we move and change from day to day. When I'm really 'in the zone' in my writing, I know it, and my perception of what I'm writing affirms that for me. When I'm having to work at it, wrestle with the words, that shows too, to me at least, whether other people can see it or not.

As for reading other people, I all too often pick up a book I greatly enjoyed/admired first time round and wonder why on earth I felt that way. I think it's partly to do with story telling. Very often in first read, the story is all, whether or not it's 'well-written'. There are writers, and there are story-tellers, and the two don't always meld into one. Sometimes I enjoy reading work purely for the use of language, the way the writer lays the words on the page. When that's the case, very often, the story is not even secondary.

Zoe

No one is so critical (or shouldn't be) of their writing as the one who writes it. I waver. Sometimes I get a real thrill from what I've done, then later on, I despise it. It's all part of the game, and very difficult to remain objective. It's also hard to start loving a piece of work once you've decided you hate it, but know that it's all a part of the journey to where you're aiming for, and should be respected for that.

Yes, sometimes I read a book or a piece, and feel despair because I think I'll never equal it. On balance though, I also read a lot of published work and feel very strongly 'I could do better than that'.

JB

This rings a lot of bells with me. It reminds me of that Zadie Smith essay that was being discussed a while back. She argued that writing has failure built into it - that we can never, as writers, match our own expectations of ourselves. Or something like that, I think. I may be misrepresenting her but that's sort of what I think anyhow.

When it comes to reading, yes, to that too. I wonder if something happens to the way you read books when you've tried your hand at writing yourself. You're naturally more aware, or wary, of what the writer's up to. You notice the tricks. And see the joins, etc. Writers are very unforgiving readers, I think.

You're naturally more aware, or wary, of what the writer's up to. You notice the tricks. And see the joins, etc.

I think it's incredibly hard to read innocently once you've tried to be a writer. In fact, probably impossible.

Does anyone ever get the feeling when they're writing that their words just aren't up to scratch?

It would sound smug to say, 'Yes, but then I re-write it.' You can't say you're satisfied with your writing if you ever go back to an old piece and see a sentence you could have done better.

But equally, when I'm in the zone, I don't have expectations about my writing. I know what I'm going to say, but how I'm going to say it is the gift of the moment. Does that sound worryingly new agey? It is how it feels

Yes, sometimes I read a book or a piece, and feel despair because I think I'll never equal it.

Yes, me too. But some of what makes that writing so special is because it's new to you, and your own writing can be a lot of things to you, but new and strange almost never - your own cadences and concerns are, well, you own. And someone else, picking up yours will, with luck, feel just that same new strangeness, because it's yours, not their's.

Emma

Writers are very unforgiving readers, I think.

Absolutely. In fact, I'd say that since I started to write seriously (well, seriously enough) I am a lot more discerning in what I read, and like you say, I also notice more. I notice cliche and devices like never before. A bad sentence leaps out from a mile away. Clunky dialogue screams at me. Passive voice and plot holes haunt me until a story is ruined. The editorial eye is impossible to switch on once it has been activated.

This attention to detail has also followed through into films. I often notice plot devices and can tell a seemingly complex twist from a mile away. I have even won the occasional bet with mates over this ability. I sussed out the Sixth Sense first time I saw it, The Prestige wasn't difficult, and the other night, I figured out the end of Cypher well before the end. I'm not proud of it. In fact, it's annoying. Anyone else ever get that 'if I'm right, I'll scream' feeling?

I guess as writers we are like stagehands, like Oz behind his curtain. We get to see behind the greasepaint, know the nuts and bolts of all the special effects, to the effect that, in the end, they aren't that special.

Still, putting one over on a rapt audience - now, that's worth all the blood, sweat and tears in my book.

JB




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*switch off, even.

JB,

I do this exact same thing to the point that I can pretty much tell you what going to happen next in any drama I see. People think that I actually read up the plots beforehand on the net but I think it really all boils down the fact that drama aims to keep people interested by giving them what they want. If you learn to see what an audience wants from a drama it's pretty easy to predict how it unfolds.

You can't say you're satisfied with your writing if you ever go back to an old piece and see a sentence you could have done better.

Yes, and once it's gone beyound the point of no return...

I honestly thought a sentence in a story of mine had been altered by the editor until I checked the original - OMG I did write that- aargh.

Yes it can be hard to read for pleasure or relaxation - I used to lose myself completely in books and while I can still do it - it is not so easy.

Does anyone think if you ever lost that 'I am in awe - I could never write like that' feeling you would be in serious trouble creatively?

As for the working out the mechanics especially films - sometimes it is good when you have an idea what is coming but the auteur does it so well you are still surprised and delighted?

sarah

Does anyone think if you ever lost that 'I am in awe - I could never write like that' feeling you would be in serious trouble creatively?

Yes, not necessarily because I had come to think I was the greatest writer in the world, but rather because I can only imagine feeling like that if I had completely lost my receptiveness to words and ideas, and without that, I don't think you can write. (Not so much the oft-quoted 'you can't write well if you don't read', though that's true too, as 'you can't write at all if you can't read.)

Emma