We all know how ruthless and hard this writing business is to get into, and it got me thinking that it obviously does help if you have contacts or maybe come from famous stock, as well as having writing ability. This is not a dig at anyone, so please dont take it the wrong way, it is merely an observation of the way many things in life are. They always say it's not what you know but who. And look at all these celebrities who have 'written' books.

So in realistic terms, does it mean that someone like myself, who has no one famous in my background and has no contacts whatsoever in the agency/publishing world or anywhere else for that matter - in fact I am a very ordinary working class person who hasn't done very much at all in my life - will never make it, unless our work is of outstandingly exeptional quality?

Katerina

Katerina, I really don't think it does. Knowing the right person, or being related to them, gets you read, and perhaps more attentively, but, fundamentally, publishers can't and won't publish a book that won't make money, and, conversely, if they think your book will, they'll publish it.

When you've got a contract, one of the things that happens is that you meet the book's publicist. That meeting largely consists of her taking you by the ankles and shaking you till something falls out of your pockets that will catch the interest of the media. I used to think that only people with interesting backgrounds got published. Now I realise that a good publicist can make any author sound interesting in a one-minute soundbite on the phone to a newspaper. Either you're related to the Duke of Blank, or you're a wonderfully ordinary housewife-from-a-housing-estate. Either the first words you ever set on paper were published, or you've had twenty years of rejections. Either you sailed round the world single handed, or you've never stirred from your village in Snowdonia. In fact, of course, most of those people's backgrounds are less dramatic and duller than that, but while novelists tell the truth, as we know, journalists never let it get in the way of a good story.

I know from my agent - see the Society of Authors thread - that she doesn't take any notice of the 'marketability' of an author when she's deciding whether to take them on. The quality of the writing is all that matters. And once you're taken on by a good agent, the chances of your being published are really pretty good.

I'd imagine that a writer's background is even less relevant in short fiction, which I think you write? I can't remember a mag. story where who the writer is is mentioned at all, except possibly in the 'X lives in Lancashire with her husband and two dogs' or whatever.

Emma

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The celebrities who have 'written' books we can ignore, can't we? They're not writers; that's just packaging.

Emma,

Thanks those are heartening words indeed.

Yes I do write short fiction/non fiction, but am also in the middle of a novel, which I want to concentrate on more.

What I was concerned with was, exactly that, the marketability of someone who is pretty nondescript. And the fact that if you are very ordinary, will you ever get looked at by an agent, when they could choose someone who comes from a famous writing background for instance? After all it would help sales if the publisher could say Miss Bloggs, daughter of the famous Joe Bloggs wouldn't it?

Katerina

PS. re celebrities, yes I agree it's just packaging, but it still sells because of their fame.

As far as the children of authors goes, maybe it helps, in that an agent will assume that the writer roughly knows what they're doing and will read more attentively, if only to be able to look the parent in the eye at the next industry bash. But it won't get the child published unless the book will (they hope) make money, for which the book has to be good.

Sorry if this sounds self-aggrandising: I've got a very, very famous surname, but it says nothing about whether I can write. If my name was the key to my being published the first thing I ever submitted would have been, and neither it nor its several successors were. I had to write a good enough book. The name comes in handy now for grabbing media attention, and perhaps for people picking the book up for a look in the bookshop, but they're not going to buy it if they don't like what they read.

My agent was also interesting about the celebrity thing. Apparently there are SIXTY celebrity books coming out this autumn, which have cost an awful lot of money, and in her opinion, the publishers are about to discover that the market is saturated, and people won't buy them. The loss will hurt the publishers balance sheets badly, but that'll make them much, much more wary about spending those vast sums in the future.

Emma

Sixty?

The mind boggles! Well, there's going to be some very expensive toilet paper knocking around my house then...

JB

Katerina, I'm from a very ordinary background and the nearest I got to a celebrity was when the queen came to open our local motorway service station.

What I did to to make sure my mss had the best possible opportunities was to go to readings and talk to authors, to go on writing courses and get to know the tutors, to talk to the editors of small magazines and competition organisers. Sometimes people can put you in touch with others who can really help you. The term 'Networking' sounds horribly sinister, I think, but in practice it's about being interested in people, open to opportunities, and organised about keeping hold of contact details.

Yes, that's the key, I'm sure: getting into that world, getting a feel for it, getting to know names and faces, making (at least mild) friends. And if possible, having something ready to send if you do come across anyone who could help and is willing to do it. I shied away from all that completely, partly because I didn't know it all existed, and I regret that in some ways. I think I would have got on faster if I hadn't.

Emma

The trouble is a lot of writers are naturally quite shy people. I recently went to an event designed especially for unpublished writers where they had laid on a little reception and we were invited to stay and expected to chat to people who could give us advice. I am not easy with these things but was determined not to just chicken out so downed a couple of drinks and charged in and introduced myself which was all a bit excrucriating but after the first bit was fine and people were friendly and forgiving (as I said, it was designed for this.) But a lot of the writers seemed to just leave and I suspect many felt shy.

I think also many writers feel they are putting themselves forward, but if you think of adopting a more professional attitude about it, it is easier. It is your work. Most people can face these things when representing their job, it is just the same if you think about it.

Also people forget that the experts, professionals and insiders can be shy too sometimes.

I used to be painfully shy, snowbell, but you do get better at approaching people the more you do it. My mother's motto was "We don't push ourselves forward" and it's taken me years to realise that actually it's all right to talk your work and ideas up in a professional context, and not to meet every compliment with a flurry of self-disparagement.

That event sounds great; was it useful?

Also people forget that the experts, professionals and insiders can be shy too sometimes.

I think that's really worth remembering, and very true. By definition writers have back-room natures: we'd go mad if we weren't comfortable working alone. Any festival will show you that even some well-established writers are fundamentally not comfortable with the live side of their trade. Especially the ones who appear arrogant - it's often (not always) well-established cover for deep discomfort.

But yes, at the kind of event you went to, Snowbell, everyone knows the score. One thing it took me ages to learn is to regard things like that as practice. It isn't a failure if you don't come away clutching a trillion business cards and three requests for your MS; that's the exception.

The other thing I only understood recently (being the world's worst networker and most confirmed misanthropist) is that networking is a reciprocal thing: it only really works if you go concentrating on what you have to offer, not with a desire to take. (And I don't mean your MS, even if you think it's the greatest since DVC). This is a problem for an aspiring writer, as you don't have much to offer - you feel more like a supplicant. That's why the best connections you make at that kind of thing may be with other aspiring writers, not the agents/editors or whoever. Other writers, however, know other people/courses/competitions/agents/mag editors. And if/when you do get published, they'll start that much-desired buzz about your work.

Emma

Lammi - it was just brilliant. It was all about debut writers and was a great atmosphere and open and friendly and people there were KEEN to help new writers. I wish there were more events like this.

I know what you mean about not having to come away clutching hundreds of business cards Emma. But I find if you say to people "Do you mind if I ask you some advice" rather than "here I have my 1000page manuscript in my bag - here you go" that people tend to be happy to talk to you. I just wanted to say it to Katarina particularly really because sometimes you can get the impression from this site that there is this faceless nasty industry rejecting everything in sight and Katerina was worried that you have to know people. But it is possible to go along to things and meet people who can give you information and help without your having to be pushy or awful and to try and take those opportunities when they come up. Sometimes you have to force yourself to do things that you naturally want to shy away from and that's the only way of getting used to it. And then its often easier than you imagined.

It wasn't the Debut Writers' Festival in Edinburgh, by any chance? I went in 2005 and it was very well attended and there was a real buzz. There were representatives from agencies and publishing houses, big names and small independent presses, all ready to talk to aspiring novelists. I really would recommend the event.

you can get the impression from this site that there is this faceless nasty industry rejecting everything in sight

Yes, you can, and it really isn't true. It certainly hurts like hell when your submission comes plopping back through the door, but that's not the only way to make contact with them, and most of the other ways are much less painful, and more likely to bear fruit of some sort. And asking for genuinely needed information, without a MS in your hand, is as good a start as any.

I saw something about the debut writers festival, and though it looked very interesting. I'm glad to know that it was good.

Emma

Yes it was! I can't recommend it enough. It was really encouraging and orientated towards first-time novelists and also had an unpublished writers event. And everyone was very friendly and keen on encouraging new writers. I don't know if there's one next year but people should really look out for it. It was in July. I think there's more info on the net at www.debutauthorsfestival.co.uk. Were you there presenting work or as an audience member Lammi?

Thanks for that advice everyone, it does help.

My problem is, I don't know any other writers, don't know anyone who could invite me to one of those meetings - not that we have anything like that here anyway - don't know any or of any agents/publishers, or have any contacts who could put me in touch with someone who could steer me in the right direction.

There are no reading/writing groups in my area, and certainly no talks by authors.

I live in a little seaside town, where nothing happens, it's very boring, mundane and ordinary.

I'm not from the area where I live, and the odd couple of friends I do have, are not writers, and don't know anyone in the business either.

So, I really am alone in this, plus I don't drive, so can't really get around that much - not that there's anything to get around to.

Bit of a lost cause really - it sometimes makes me wonder, what's the point of trying to get my novel finished, I don't know anyone at all who could help me get it 'out there'.

I am going to finish it, in fact I've written 7 chapters in the last couple of days, but what to do with it once it's finished? It'll probably end up in a drawer somewhere.

I know I sound defeatist, but I'm truly not, just praactical and honest.

Katerina