Ok, perhaps I should explain what what prompted the initial thought, as Nell said it was the following interview -
http://www.writewords.org.uk/interviews/five_leaves.asp

Ross Bradshaw says in the Interview...
quote -

‘I work for a living - appropriately as the literature development officer for Nottinghamshire County Council’

'...and what makes your heart sink?'

‘I get bored with novelists who write about middle-class life’

‘Budding writers should really be in discussion with their local literature officers or arts councils.’

- end of quote

So I said to myself, if I lived in Nottingham, would it be worth my being in discussion with the local literature or arts officer unless I was writing about the working class?

Hi,

I read that interview as well and was struck the same as you were. I decided that if you've got middle class characters doing what is accepted as middle class, then it is all very middle class. However, I think you can take someone with a middle-class background and shake them up endlessly, coming up with some startling, radical results....

(If I am echoing someone else, forgive me -- I just started at the start, and only now will I read on responsibly....)

Anne Marie

Friday

the second class post is about to end I had notification from the Royal mail last week

As For Class I never think of my self as any class ( other than perhaps being in a class of my own)

I am me an individual getting through life the best way I can.

I find it strange that people think of themselves as middle class working class etc and then deride the class structure although they hold the class thing up as a banner.


It does annoy me though when people, whom you think should know better start blabbing on about class aka the person andrew quoted.probably becaus ethey consider themselves as upper class.

Surely in literature you write a story and set it in a situation that is appropriate I doubt anybody sets out to write a novel which is class definitive.


thats the end of my rant

Wealth has always been the yardstick by which one assessed 'classes'. At one time Education did assist in categorising people into different 'groups', but this is decreasing in importance as a 'University' education is no longer open only to the wealthy. Ironically the obvious lack of education evidenced and exploited by so many people in our Society, helps to accentuate these unfortunate concepts.

However there are so many other factors that contribute to our attitudes towards 'Class'. These will always be with us but to any writer this will be part of the complex Society our creative pens have to deal with.

Len

If you’ll forgive a quick detour back to the whaling/protest to government offshoot…

It’s better to light one small candle than to curse the darkness. Lots of small candles sure as hell cast a bright light.

I’ve complained to the Norwegian govt about whaling. I’ve complained about lots of things. For instance: I boycott Nestle products because I support the Baby Milk Action Group. OK, I’m only one individual but so are we all. 1% of individuals in each country making the same decision can have a serious effect. Five years ago Nestle were one of the strongest companies in this country. Now they are in serious financial difficulties and desperately trying to improve their image.

Sorry to hijack the thread – couldn’t resist the opportunity. If anyone would like a very short list of campaign groups which wield an enormous clout, WWmail me.

Dee. (working class)

Dee

One of the things in addition to your boycott is the reduction in chocolate sales, this has hit Nestle quite hard along with other chocolate manufacturers.

As for Len's comments I believe that one can be rich without having much material wealth so where doe sthat place me

take care

david

ps i guess we all try to make a stand form time to time perhaps if we all didi it on the same day it would make a differnece

I find it bizarre that people still want to put themselves in class boxes. Why the hell is it relevant? What use does it have other than to use it as a tool to try and make yourself seem above others? Which to my mind doesn't work, because there is a certain pride to be had from knowing you made your life for yourself rather than relying on daddy's money or reputation.

Just my tuppenceworth.

The point I was making was as follows -

When it comes to an individual publisher, they have the perfect right to promote whatever style of writing they wish. They are promoting the work and financing it not on behalf of the community but based on what they individually believe and their own code of ethics.

However, Council Tax payers have the right to expect that literature should be promoted on the basis of it being worthwhile and relevant to that area of the country, and their local community.

When public funds are being considered in the promotion of an author on behalf of their community, what class the author chooses to write about is only relevant in as much as the council should ensure they promote a balance that reflects their community and not be biased in favour of one section.

The implication of the interview (perhaps an incorrect one?) was that only the Nottingham Literature Development Officer would consider those books about the working-class worthy of promotion. Surely, this is a prejudiced view and outdated view?

ps However, I did enjoy the discussion about the rights of Whales.

<Added>

IB - I noted your pro whales stance but you in better stead with Nell than your anti Wales stance. ;)

<Added>

typo correction - put you in better stance

<Added>

also the 'only' got displaced, it was meant to read - the Nottingham Literature Development Officer would only consider those books about the working-class worthy of promotion.

Another quick hijack - sorry!

Yay Dee! You're the first person I've met in years who's still boycotting Nestlé too... It's a shame they're trying to sue small countries for money instead of dealing with their reputation face on though, isn't it?

Keep lighting those candles

Huggs

Ralph (class of 2001)

bluesky3d wrote:

However, Council Tax payers have the right to expect that literature should be promoted on the basis of it being worthwhile and relevant to that area of the country, and their local community. When public funds are being considered in the promotion of an author on behalf of their community, what class the author chooses to write about is only relevant in as much as the council should ensure they promote a balance that reflects their community and not be biased in favour of one section.

I don't know about anyone else - but I rarely read literature that is specifically to do with my area of the country - mostly because a lot of what is written and published here by a local publisher is published because it is local and not because it has real merit. That's not to say there aren't good writers here - but few write novel length fiction, and the general interests of this area generally leave me cold. Also I like the escapist element to reading fiction, and want to get lost in a world other than my own, so I am not sure how relevant your first paragraph really is in the real world.

Your second paragraph is spot in - in an ideal world. Sure, ideally funds should be spent fairly and equitably between the various interests of all the populous. In the real world - when it comes to writing in particular - in any area there is a limited amount of talent worth publishing. Should there be local talent that covers all the wide ranging interests in the area, fabulous. But I doubt if the council a) has enough funds for everyone and b) can find people worth funding covering all the interests of one area.

Daisy - whether it is the business of local councils to fund literature at all is another question! I am open to listen to the reasons why.

Andrew )

<Added>

To explain my comment - I'm not that in favour of the local council in Cornwall promoting books that promote Australia... if you see my meaning?

<Added>

I should add - I have no evidence that they have promoted Australia, this was meant as an example by way of exageration

I object to my council promoting books at all. With coucil tax going through the proverbial roof in recent years, wasting the money promoting books while services continue to suffer is absolutely appalling.

I have an extensive rant pre-written on the whole council tax issue here

I think the middle classes like to think there's no such thing as class any more, since it suits their cosy feelings about tolerance. However, this assumed tolerance can bring its own censorship. A while ago I wrote a book where the main character was a middle class boy who happened to be good at football. His ex-player school caretaker sends him to a working class boys' club because he knows he'll never be watched by professional scouts, because club scouts don't bother with middle class boys. The reason being that they know middle-class parents will not let their sons join an apprenticeship scheme that only gives a boy a one in twenty or so chance of turning professional. They won't let him sacrifice a better career for football. The book was turned down by my editor at the time because, as she said, 'football is now a middle-class game, Terry'. I said that whereas it was true that middle class people were now more interested in watching football, you still don't get middle-class people playing it. How many middle-class Premiership UK players can you name? It's different in Germany and Holland where football clubs run very good education schemes in parallel with the football so the boys will get a good education even if they fail at footy. But she still didn't take the book.

Thanks Terry,

it is unfortunate but I think that proves that class in this country is very much an issue that we have to deal with as writers, one way or another.

It sounds a great book!

A )

<Added>

I tend to agree with you IB that Councils should concentrate on essential services only and not get involved with books!

<Added>

other than libraries, that is

<Added>

Damilola was on his way home after finishing a computer class at the new Peckham Library when he was brutally attacked by a gang of youths. He died on the way to hospital from the stab wound he had received.



I quote from the Damilola Taylor Trust web site as fllows...

'Damilola was loved by everyone who knew him, and was nicknamed the 'boy with the infectious smile '.His lifetime ambition was to become a doctor so that he could carry out medical research into the treatment and cure of Epilepsy, in order to save the life of his sister and others like her.

He loved artwork and played football - his favourite football club was Manchester United FC. Damilola wrote a lot of poems, and he once wrote about his life ambition on one of his drawings, as follows:

"I will travel far and wide to choose my destiny and remould the world. I know it is my destiny to defend the world which I hope to achieve during my lifetime." end quote

It seems probable that his visit to a library may be the reason he was killed... attitudes to learning are important... we need to break down those barriers in this country.

I object to my council promoting books at all. With coucil tax going through the proverbial roof in recent years, wasting the money promoting books while services continue to suffer is absolutely appalling. I have an extensive rant pre-written on the whole council tax issue here

I had assumed that he was referring to arts council rather than local authority council - I have never seen money go from a local authority council directly to one or more authors. Oh well. I'm wrong again