Reading one of the interviews made me wonder whether it is possible to be middle class and still have a radical edge? Is the working class hero still a hero? Middle class seems to be a pejorative term.

Although my dad was a sheet metal worker, as I had a university education, I suppose this makes me middle-class by default.

Does this mean therefore, the middle-class not capable of having a voice that is relevant?

It strikes me that this attitude, if it exists, is as bad as any other ism – and so to racism, ageism, sexism perhaps we now have to add 'classism'?

class discrimination is hardly anything new, and is hardly today anything like it historically has been, but is also essentially inevitably, simple due to the distribution of power, or lack thereof, between the different classes.

That said, every man has a voice, it's just that so very few choose to use it, or use it wisely.

On a tangent, how many people were outraged when Iceland proposed to re-start whale hunting? Quite a few, probably some of them on this message board. How many of you voiced your complaints to the Icelandic government?

From your reply, I am not sure I communicated the point to you IB, I was not talking about whale hunting, although I applaud you concern for those very intelligent of mammals.

Andrew, I read that too, and although I can't find it now I took it to refer to sterotypes and mundanity rather than classism, although I think you're right about the term middle-class being used in a critical sense these days.

I've noticed an upsurge in publishers and websites promoting northern working class writers, but fashions tend to swing from one one extreme to the other over time and I think that truly brilliant and original writing will eventually find a publisher and be recognised wherever the author comes from or whoever he/she is.

Where does that leave the middle list - those writers who although not dazzling with originality are good competent writers/storytellers with a potential following? Probably nowhere - I seem to remember an author saying recently that there is no middle list now. Ah well, back to the keyboard to open a vein.

IB, I don't remember seeing the whale topic discussed - how long ago was that? I've given up TV and often miss things.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent. The whale thng was last summer I believe. People were up in arms, but other than myself, I can't find a single person who bothered to write a letter to the Icelandic embassy, or anyone else for that matter, about it.

Anyway, I'll leave it there before I hijack this discussion any more.

I heard something that tickled some memory cells the ther day: somone accused me of inverse snobbery...
It's an interesting point, Andrew. Because sometimes I do think it's still seen to be acceptable to be prjudiced so long as you're on the side of the "minority". So, it's okay to mock the wealthier members of society, but not the poorer... Or, as someone I got quite angry with the other night said. "I'm allowed to be heterosexist. It's our turn..."
Hmmm. Not very enlightened, is it? And not very helpful.

Then again, I do get fed up of people saying it's tasteless to make fun of X, Y or Z. I like Matt Stone's take on life; if we're all equal, then we're all equally open to being made fun of...

On another side though, is it just me or did "middle class" stop refering to class and start meaning more "middle" at some point? I thought these days it was used more to refer to people who value the word "normal" above everything else... Don't want to stand out from the crowd, care whether their car is better/worse than next door's... that kind of thing?

And, going off on IB's tangent (and they are fun those, thanks IB...) Does anyone know if voicing a complaint to the government is even remotely effective any more? I'm starting to get a bit disillusioned about the concept of democracy...

IB, I'm really touched that you sent a letter. You must be much deeper and far less dark than you like us to believe. And you did realize the vampire thing was a joke, didn't you? (Couldn't ask you that on the appropriate forum as I think it's better if it falls from sight now.)

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Ralph, who knows what effect protesting might have - it's probably all down to sheer numbers and the amount of inconvenience the protesters cause. Better not continue, as now I'm hijacking this forum, but Greenpeace have been admirably effective in drawing attention to so many things.

An individual letter of complaint isn't likely to raise many eyebrows, but sending a letter of complaint to both government and any concerned charities/groups might. And if everyone who had feelings sent such letters, someone would have to listen.

95% of authors published today are middle class, and always have been. Go into any bookshop pick up a random book and you’ll be presented with middle class characters in their middle class life.

I don’t see Andrew’s complaint? Where is the discrimination?

Dawn,

IB - Have also done the letter and petition thing re whale hunting!

But what about Bull fighting and fox hunting?

I have to say that it won't stop me going to Iceland (went there for honeymoon and last year and am planning to go again). It is simply the best place I have ever been...

It's appalling that there's such a thing as class at all in UK. It took me years of my young life in this country to 'get it', (being from NZ), but I'd have thought things like 'Bridget Jones' and other 'chick-lit' is middle class isn't it? So I think too, that there is plenty middle left, and plenty working as well.

I'm also not sure there is any discrimination. In a recent survey I read in a newspaper, it was said that if asked about 90% of people say they think they are middle class. It seems these days being middle class is akin to being a 'normal' member of society. When I read the original interview, where I read middle class, I interpreted this to mean 'normal' in the prosaic sense of the word. I thought the interviewee was having a sly swipe at books about ordinary people in ordinary situations. I have to say that I disagree. I don't see anything wrong with writing about the extraordinary in amongst the day to day world of the ordinary. Some of my favourite books contain content like this, The wind up bird chronicles for example

(seem to have gone off on one - didn't mean to..)

Just my take on this.

Sam

IB, Nell et al.

Thanks for renewing my faith in humanity... I wish the whole world was like you guys

I'm maybe just getting jaded. Marches and letters of protest for age of consent laws and partnership bills and, for goodness sake, war in Iraq? Why? And the only responses I've ever had (and they are few) are too rude to print here. Maybe I'm not saying the right thing to the MPs...

Coming back to that expression "normal". I'm still not sure what that means. Is there an exact model of what we should be like, what an "average" person is? I agree with Sam that it's important to write about "ordinary" people, in that it dispells this idea that there's such a thing, doesn't it? Or is this just me?

Ralph, I don't believe there's any such thing as an 'ordinary' person. The phrase is practically an oxymoron, all one sees is what's on the outside, the facade we show to the world, and sometimes we even delude ourselves. Wish I could find that interview Andrew is talking about though, I do remember being pulled up short by that part and wondering exactly what was meant by it.

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Found it. The phrase is 'middle-class life' and the interviewee says he's bored by writers who write about it.

I have friends from abroad who still think it is funny, that England has 1st and 2nd class post!

Dawn,