Hi

I am looking for guidance on whether or not I might be infringing copyright.

I have written a story where my main character sings a snatch from ‘Good Morning Starshine’ from the musical ‘Hair’, puts his own words to a bit of an Elton John song and quotes from the film 'Fifth Element' I have included the relevant bits below and would appreciate comments on whether I am infringing copyright in any way and if so what I need to do about it.

1. ‘Good morning, star shine.’ I yodel happily. ‘The world says “Hello”.’

2.‘Someone saved my life last night, Charlie, here,’ I sing at the top of my voice, ‘I very nearly choked and died . . . ’
‘I really wish you had died, then I could get some sleep.’
‘Be careful what you wish for!’ I warn him, then segue smoothly back into Elton John. ‘But butterflies are free to fly . . . ’
‘Alright, alright! Just stop singing!’

3. ‘Don’t forget, Charlie,’ I say, ‘What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.’
‘What film is that from?’
Charlie is familiar with my habit of quoting from films that I’ve seen, everything from Star Wars to Brother Bear.
‘The Fifth Element. Gary Oldman says it just after the Mangalores blow themselves up with the guns he’s sold them.

Probably the easy answer is the re-write those bits of the story.

This story is going into a published anthology so I want to be sure I am squeaky clean.

Thanks

John

P.S. If you want to read the whole story ‘An Alternative Approach’ is in my archive, but be warned it is 5,000 words long

J

Short answer, I’d say, is yes, you are infringing copyright. When I first wrote Paying For The Gallery. I used a few song lines but I got so worried by scare stories, I took them out.

I heard tales of impoverished authors being threatened with immensely costly legal action, and of copyright-holders demanding fees for just one line that was more than a whole novel could reasonably be expected to make.

There have been a few discussions on this in the past. I found these by searching on ‘copyright song’. You could try searching on ‘lyrics’ or something, to see if there are any more threads.

http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/46_43645.asp?y=1&sterm=copyright%20song

http://www.writewords.org.uk/forum/46_2034.asp?y=1&sterm=copyright%20song

I’ll try and have a look at the story later today. I didn’t know you wrote such long shorts!

Dee

And I'd say "no", because people quote movies and books all of the time in real life, and we can use past literature and film as parallel storylines, eg, The Giant's Garden by Oscar Wilde is used in The Hippopotamus by Stephen Fry, The Northern Lights by Philip Pullman is used throughout Child X by Lee Weatherly. So long as you include an acknowldgement it won't be a problem.

Including full songs is probably a no-no, but everyone has a novel somewhere that is packed with quoted lyrics, (Christine by Stephen King probably holds the record). Again, an acknowledgement is usually sufficient.

And just to top it off, this quote, ‘Good morning, star shine. The world says “Hello”.’ - is said (badly - but very funnily) by by Willie Wonker in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

But how do you know they didn’t all pay for the privilege?

I’d really like to get a definitive answer on this because I’d like to use lyrics in my writing.

I’ll have a look see what the SoA say.

Dee

I thought I'd read it in the WAYB, but it's such a long time back now - but I do remember asking myself the same question at the time, ie do you have to pay, and got the answer, "so long as you don't include the whole, or a major fraction of the song, then an acknowledgement is sufficient"

I wish I could find a solid source.

I’m checking the SoA website at the moment but getting sidetracked by a very interesting article on indie publishers… back in a mo…

Dee

Found it!

I've just downloaded this from the SoA’s Guide to Permissions. (hope they don’t mind!) The bold is mine, not theirs.

Note: Permission should always be sought to quote from song lyrics that are in copyright (the term of protection is the same as for other literary works). Contact the music company in the first instance, and note that permission fees can be quite considerably higher than book publishers would charge.

Well, that’s been a very interesting exercise. It’s amazing how much info they have on that site – lots of guides which can be downloaded by non-members at £2 a shot. Cheap alternative to a court case, I think…

Dee

As I understand it, you always need to get permission, and whether you need to pay is up to the copyright holder. And I'm fairly sure you have to quote it correctly, unless you specifically get permission to quote it incorrectly, otherwise you're infringing the author's moral rights to have his/her work treated properly, whoever now owns the copyright.

I think the only time you can quote small bits without clearing permission first is in academic works, as long as you give the references properly. And songs are so short that 'small' would be very small, I guess. But that's a specific exception to make academic work possible, and certainly wouldn't apply to anything being commercially published.

Emma



<Added>

Dee, yes, that article's very interesting, isn't it. And it's a terrific site. I didn't realise you could download the guides directly - that's good.

Thanks guys.

I think that pretty much says it. I shall take all the references out.

Thanks a lot for your time and trouble.

Best

John

Emma is right, asking permission is just professional courtesy. As my recent adventures have advised me, the snippets you've mentioned will come under what is known as 'fair usage'. This is a technical term that basically means you are using the pieces in a non-damaging way, and only then in small amounts. Such usage rarely costs any money, but you will certainly need to credit the artist/writer in the published work and their copyright. Most ask for a copy of the published work they're appearing in.

I think most infringement cases happen when a writer or artist just doesn't ask, and you have to ask yourself, how would you feel? If someone asks, you're likely to feel flattered - if not, pretty cheesed off I'd imagine as it is a kind of mind theft.

I have recently had 'fair usage' contracts from Marilyn Manson's agent, the estate of Tennessee Williams, and a personal letter of permission to re-publish a James Reaney poem, so for once, I know what I'm talking about!!!

Hope this helps.

JB

Cheers JB

That is very useful to know.

The problem is I am one of twenty-five local authors in Dubai who are being published as part of a collection of stories around the general theme of a 'New Life in Dubai'.

It is a start-up project without the funds or the time for the kind of effort you have obviously put in.

I have taken the easy way out and re-written the story to remove the offending passages.

Best

Prosp

Doesn't it depend, too, on how old the text is? The examples given are recent, but I remember when I was in amateur drama we performed plays that were out of copyright, that is more than thirty years old, because then we didn't have to pay copywright fees.

In my novel set in London in 1969 I quote a few lines of the then popular Buddy Holly song 'Peggy Sue'. I had assumed it was out of copyright.


Sheila

Hasn't this been in the news recently, with Cliff Richard (rightly) pointing out that he wrote songs that are almost fifty years old, so the copyright should stay with him rather than going to the record company after those fifty years.

When copyright laws were harmonised across Europe the period extended from the old UK fifty years to the seventy years that other countries had, and some UK property went back into copyright, having been out of it.

Emma

Simply put, copyright issues are a complete and utter pain in the a**. The ONLY way to be 100% certain of copyright (i.e. in cases where you believe it may not exist) is to hire a professional copyright lawyer. The rules have changed over time and are really quite complex. If you can get written permission from the relevant authority - ensuring that they are the relevant authority, which isn't necessarily straightforward - then it's a lot easier.

On one tiny point, "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is, I think a derivation of a well-known Nietzsche maxim, "That which does not kill me (us, you), makes me (us, you) stronger" (I'm not sure of the exact form). Since Nietzsche died in 1900 you should be able to quote him without a problem - but don't take my word for it!

Jon



<Added>

Mind you, I would suggest that

Charlie is familiar with my habit of quoting from German philosophy, everything from Hegel to Schopenhauer.

Doesn't quite strike the same tone as the original :)

Jon