I wasn't quite sure which forum to post this in - hope I chose the right one...

Can anyone tell me what the copyright issues would be if I wanted to quote a couple of lines of a well-known song in a short story I’m currently writing? I know that if I was using the music in a short film I would have to pay for the privilege but (to my shame!) I don’t really know how it would work in this case, using the lyrics alone in a piece of short fiction.

Any help or advice would be gratefully received!

Snowcat

Hmmm, you need to check it out. I quoted from Ricki Lake in my contracted novel, and my publisher came back saying Sony Pictures (who look after Lake's affairs) wanted $800 for the use of about twenty words!

Naturally, I dropped the quote.

JB

<Added>

The factors depend on how much of it you use, how old it is etc. I think anything older than seventy years is usable with no copyright infringement.

$800 for twenty of anyone's words is nothing less than extortionate! (And, come on, Ricki Lake? Who's she kidding? The mind boggles...)

The song in question is 'Mad World', written by Roland Orzabal in the early 80's and made famous again as part of the Donnie Darko soundtrack in 2001 so, sadly, still a way to go before it falls out of copyright completely! I'm intending to use literally a couple of lines (depending on who's formatting the lyrics, it's either 2 lines or 3) and I'm hoping that the rules that apply to non-fiction books/articles etc (i.e. that you can use up to a certain number of lines for free, as long as you clearly attribute them to their author) might also apply here too. Of course 'hoping' is rather different to 'knowing', hence the question...

Thanks for the advice, JB, much appreciated.

Snowcat

You could always try contacting the writer themselves, with an offer of a thank you in the acknowledgements? Easier said that done, I know. I'm going to have to ask Kylie if she minds if I use a few lines from her song in my book...

JB

Songs seem to be in a different league… or should that be songwriters? I've heard horror stories of song copyright holders demanding more money than an author could expect to make in royalties, just for one line of a song.

Is it absolutely essential that you use the exact words? If it is, I'd advise you to contact the copyright holder and see how they respond.

Whatever you do, don’t stick your head in the sand and hope it will be OK. People have been bankrupted that way.

Dee

I’m sure Kylie’s on tenterhooks waiting for your call, JB… I think you’re right about trying to contact the writer though, rather than the management/suit types that surround them. Different situation, but a friend of mine had much more success in asking for a favour directly from a fiction writer than she had when talking to his agent a couple of days beforehand. She was just lucky she managed to find a way past the grouchy agent in order to actually get to the writer in question!


Hi Dee,

It isn’t essential, I guess – I just really liked using them… You’re right though, there are some horror stories around – so whatever happens I promise there’ll be no heads stuck in the sand over this way.

I also wonder whether your intentions for the whole piece of work make a difference to the situation? For example, if you intend to try and get it commercially published you are clearly hoping to gain financially, whereas entry into a competition is arguably more about some kind of recognition or appraisal than cold hard cash.

Snowcat

The Society of Authors provides info on this sort of question from the user of the quote's point of view, as well as the author of it. You don't have to be a member to get hold of their information sheets. There's the Association of Copyright and Licensing Societies too, and the Performing Rights Society. Either of them might well answer a quick query on the phone, or have one on their website.

Emma

That's great. Don't despair though Cat, because if you look at the tons of stories that are around that use song lyrics, famous personalities, companies ect, it can't be that difficult.

I may send my MSS to Kylie and see what she thinks. As fan mail. I'm sure she'd notice a 500 page book in her mail. The letter attached will ask her what she thinks and if it's ok. I'll thank her in the acknowledgements, and, if she insists, take her out to dinner or something...though I am a very busy man...

JB (his head in a cloud)

As far as I know, you need to contact both the writer and the publisher - or the publisher will do both. The writer splits the copyright with the publisher so can't give 100% permission.
Sue

Thanks very much for the useful recommendations, Emma and Sue, I shall investigate further forthwith! Even if I do end up cutting out the lines this time, it would still be good to know for the future.

JB, I am certain that Kylie would not only notice the world’s longest ever piece of fan mail sitting in her mailbox, but that she would also feel compelled to do something about it. As to whether or not that ‘something’ would involve a dinner date…

Watch this space mate.

I think the rules are slightly different stateside to here. but I'm no expert.