is : followed by small case o … and if you put brackets round it you get a ‘scream’ ()

xx

what like this?


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brill, thanks people

This is very predictable, and I apologise, but it just has to be done!!




()

Now the hard part is remembering these things!

joanie

.\/
. (0)
_/' \_

you can't believe how long it took me to do that!

Jolly good Colin

Do we need another discussion about useful and allowable ways of spending our spare time, unwinding etc other than reading Harry Potter

(she ducks below the parapet)



or perhaps

I've had my rant - 'till the next book

Colin

Even better my fellow Potter-knockers. Visit this site:

http://hazyskies.net/awi/

JB

Riiiiiiiiiiiight, soz can’t resist. My turn now! Apologies if anyone hates me after this, but as you may know, I ain’t in this to win friends, but don’t wanna make enemies either, so hopefully we can all get along nice even if we do disagree.

First thing, oh yeah, I forgot that is the industry standard for a quality piece of fiction, what Nik thinks! Sorry, just bein a sarky git! I know what you’re all saying I really do, but its so obvious that you are jealous.

You reckon you could write it, but better? Well f**kin well do it then for God’s sake. What are you all waiting for? Do you realize how much the woman is earning? Yet you’d rather sit here and complain? I would have thought it’d be more lucrative to write your masterpieces first, then have a go at Joanne. But fair enough, whatever floats your fleet of boats I guess.

This does wind me up, seriously. I remember sayin months ago in some thread how I guarantee that when The Half Blood Prince coimes out, the doubters will light up the torches and sharpen the pitch forks for the bi-annual JK bashing. Just get over yourselves, I know this is a competitive game, and only one of us can be the next JK, but bitchin about it ain’t gonna get you no-where.

It is blatantly jealousy. Dress it up how you like, but people get jealous coz they think they could write a better story than JK and want her riches and success, but they miss out on the crucial point; that they don’t have a story anywhere near as good as JK’s, and they can’t write half as well.

It’s not bad, it’s much better than mediocre, and I justify this by the sales and popularity of it, especially among children of all ages, whom it was written for, so there you go, I win. I think people should deal with it, coz this petty envy of a young woman, mainly by blokes of all ages, who wrote a simple fantasy story and people loved, is so unsightly. She must just laugh at it all, and all power to her for delivering the goods on such a regular basis, never failing to disappoint her fan base, and for making people’s lives just that bit better, giving kids a place they can go away from all the BULLSHIT thrown out by our governments and their enemies, and subsequently making the world a teeny bit of a better place.

I’d rather be remembered for that, than bombing people, killing, maiming or whatever in the name of whatever. I’d rather be remembered for writing the fiction, rather than picking it apart and slagging it.

The fact she keeps so dignified in the face of untold slating and abuse makes her even more of a role model and genuinely top lass in my book…

Phew…and anyway you Potter Knockers, answer me this: Why do you all read it if you hate it so much?
Coz if you tell me you haven’t read them (and I mean INCLUDING the last 3) then I genuinely feel sorry for you coz you must be proper bitter to give something you haven’t read such a hard time, not a million miles away from Mary Whitehouse and all that.

As for adults reading kids stuff; The Hobbit is a kids book, so really so is Lord of The Rings. In fact a lot of fairy tales are archetypal stories that are mapped in many forms of story telling, so really everything comes from these ancient archetypes that myth and legends of all cultures point to. And Animal Farm, say, is a fine example of a kids book that could teach adults a thing or two. What about CS Lewis books? I could go on, but won't...

And plaigerism, yeah I know you Gaimen people are furious, but explain to me why his wasn’t very popular? I think Gaimen is a fine writer, but why hasn’t he sued JK? I’m being genuine here, I wanna know. Coz you seem to be saying she has blatently ripped Neil Gaimen off, plagerised him, so that is very serious. I wanna know coz maybe I’m wrong, but I’d wager it isn’t that similar really.

If the characters are, I mean, my god a child magician?

Gaimen must be a genius to think of that one, considering its been done about a thousand times over the last few thousand years.

That’s not a far stretch that they might have come up with the same thing: an awkward geeky kid, no friends, short sighted, has magic powers.

I started writing a novel about 6 years ago, had a theme of “spirit guides”, animals that help the main characters. Never read Pullman at the time. They talked, made wise cracks etc, so if my book had been picked up and published, I’d have been accused of copying him, but I wasn’t, and even when I read His Dark Materials, I thought, sod it, I’m not changing my story coz we happen to have the same idea, which isn’t highly original. It’s how you write the story and bring the characters to life that makes it original, and Gaimen nor Rowling has the copyright on young apprentice wizards who don’t fit in with all the other kids.

Right, there you go, that’s round two. Ding Dong and all that.

REMEMBER HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI, which, 60 years ago, was frying in 1,000,000 degree heat along with 70,000 of its residents as we speak.

Thanks

DS

DS,
Not exactly concise (!) but entertaining, and it is kind of the point I made right at the beginning, about having a ten-minute rant at my dad about HP and then him telling me to get on and write my own book instead of slating hers. Which is true. However, I don't think that because I'm a writer I can't have an opinion on big sellers without being accused of jealousy - I can comment as a reader, surely? I can say 'nope, that didn't float my boat' without writing something 'better' - otherwise what's the point of this website, where we all have an opinion on each other's work, but without disclaimers all over the place...eg. 'this needs tightening up a bit - not that I could do any better' / 'you've got a typo in line 3 - not that I wouldn't have made the same typo or worse' etc etc...
M.

Dav,

Great stuff. Rightly provocative and for once admirably restrained. In my case, I don't think it's jealousy, otherwise why would I be so pleased that Philip Pullman has done so well? For me, his achievement as best-seller is a life-line, in that he's done it with good writing. And I'm not going to get into the arguments, again, of what's good writing, and what's bad. All I'm saying at this point, is that I love seeing good writers succeed, and I don't feel jealous about it because they are carving out some space for others to do the same thing. What I despair of is bad writing succeeding and especially when it's held up as something special. Because that kind of success actually closes doors to good writers. It uses up publishers' promotional budgets and it occupies space in newspaper reviews that could go elsewhere. It means that more and more good children's writers, for instance, are giving up because the returns are becoming too small to make it worthwhile. Worse still, it means that more and more young writers are copying bad writing – not consciously because they've decided that they simply want to make money from the business, but because they think that this is what good writers produce.

In a different world, there would be room for best-sellers that please the majority of readers, and for better-written books that please the minority. But in our hype-hungry culture, all the resources now get ploughed into the top ten books and the rest can look after themselves.

Speaking as a reader, I can still find good children's books to read. But that's because I've been around long enough to know where to look. I worry for kids who don't really get the choice any more.

Terry

The 'writer's jealousy' line is a moot hypothesis, in my opinion. How do you explain the non-writers who don't like the book? As for Rowling's 'role model status', I'm sorry, I guffaw. She has made her own fair share of snidey comments, including a little rant about children's fan mail 'don't tell me how to write my book' and also moaning that Order of the Phoenix didn't sell as much as the others.

As for plagiarism, let me back this up.

First, read this:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/stouffercomplaint/

OK?

A compaint was actually lodged in the Scotsman newspaper that claimed Gaiman was incredibly pissed off and accused Rowling of stealing from him. Gaiman later retracted this comment, with a half-assed comment about 'fantasy being a big stew pot, which anyone can take from' etc. When questioned later in an interview, Gaiman denied even saying this. Rowling, when asked the same question about possible plagiarism in an interview stated that Gaiman had been 'gotten to' by the Harry Potter conspiracy. Draw your own conclusions. Personally, I think Gaiman thought that to sue or kick up a fuss over such a widespread phenomenom, would make him look 'jealous' as you state, and also, professionally, it isn't very sporting no?

Success is no indicator of talent, as everyone knows. Everyone has a right to have an opinion, be it good or bad. I have my own, but I just wanted to back up some of my accusations, rather than be seen as some bitter hack who dreams of being a zillionaire, and indeed, that being the only valid goal of writing. It isn't.

JB

I’ll hold my hand up and admit I’m jealous. I think that’s why I haven’t read any Potter. One of my friends read the first draft of my book, bloated and inconsistent as it was, and she said the Story was better than anything Barclay had written. So I tried reading his Dawnthief and couldn’t, I was so jealous it made me ill.

I know it’s not very big, or very clever, but I can’t help it.

I want to write well, so if I’m ever fortunate enough to follow Rowling, Pullman or Barclay, at least people wont say I can’t write for toffee, even if they think what I write about is tosh.

Grider (grinding teeth and going green at the gills)

Here, again, is some more corroboration. The plagiarism is well documented:

http://www.geocities.com/versetrue/rowling.htm

I see nothing wrong with being influenced by other writers, but I'm wary of Potter on these grounds. It just seems a little too 'coincidental' don't you think?

JB

Okay okay - good points there people, especially from Terry. I guess you got me there. Pullman's work is a class or two above, I admit, but that's a different argument, and he is a vastly more experienced, veteran writer who didn't crack the big time til his fifties, tho he should've been massive in his twenties definitely. I heard him say the only reason he turned to "children's" fiction is coz as an British "adult" fantasy writer you get lobbed (if you are really really lucky) on the shelf with all the Yank stuff, various Michael Moorcroft, Terry Brooks does Star Trek and all that, and forgotten about. As soon as he switched genres, well, the rest is history. Poor git had to teach for 20 years though to pay the rent, so all success is well deserved. JK was a bit luckier, but still had 3 kids to bring up, so deserves her luck too, I'd wager. But I still think there is alot of jealousy among writers (and non-writers, just for the wealth aspect), though clearly and definitely not all by any means, and I'm sure 99.9% of those on this site aren't jealous what so ever, but a renewed respect and big shout out to the ones that admit it, coz that takes humility which is a fine quality in a human.

But Waxy, you guffaw all you like, that's what I think. I don't really care if Gaimen sues or not, what I'm sayin is it is highly highly likely that on a planet of billions, 3 or 4 people who write stories may come across the same idea, which is quite a basic one. So that's probably what his lawyer said to him. I just don't think JK Rowling sifted through Gaimen's work and thought, "I'll ave that wizard kid". I think she wrote a heartfelt, basic fantasy for kids, as an amatuer writer, and hit lucky, and in every work since, especially since the 3rd one, has improved tremendously. If Bloomsbury were too slack to edit the 5th, which I severly doubt, that is their prerogative, and not Rowlings fault. Anyway, I thought it was a great read, and I'm not an idiot who has only ever read kids books or anything.

A bitter hack, you JB? I would never suggest such a thing. Never call you a hack...

Yes, Dav, I'm not saying that you shouldn't like it, but if you actually examine the links above, you may have to question that sense of 'coincidence' somewhat. maybe you don't want to. It seems fairly obvious that Gaiman and the Worst Witch and various other writers who raised complaint, were paid off. Rowling's comments herself, about 'Gaiman' being 'gotten to' are very telling.

Rowling said she got the idea for HP the very same year, coincidentally, that Books of Magic came out. One coincidence, sure. So many? Nope, not on my watch.

She popularised ideas that were not her own, that other (and far far better) writers, brought forth from their imaginations. The themes are what sell her writing, not the writing itself. I seriously doubt Rowling could write about anything else and make it interesting.

I don't aspire to a success based on ripping off other people. And I don't reward plagiarism.

JB

<Added>

Incidentally, while we're on the subject of 'dignified' Rowling. She has sued. She sued OK magazine for publishing a photo of her daughter. Fair enough. Privacy has to be protected. Still, one would think she might be a little more humble considering her own dodgy (factually supported) reputation.

<Added>

She has also sued the following:

An American newspaper for discussing the plot of a HP book before it came out.

The American Army - over claims of plagiarism would you believe. Rowling claims the army plagiarised HP in a training manual!

The People's Republic of China - For unauthorised Chinese language 'sequels' to HP.

Not very 'dignified' is it? One begins to suspect where a lot of her fortune is coming from. She certainly knows her rights in terms of plagiarism, hey? Funny that.