Hello all,

Just wondered what I could do about a certain assumed plagerism ...

A little over year ago I uploaded some work to the BBC Writers Site, entitled: 'Single Secs' and received some good comments (at the end of this note). As a result of this I sent off my script to David Barron (via email) a producer who works closely with the BBC. He emailed me by return saying that he liked the script but that it was too near 'The Office' release to be worked on - and that he would be interested in other work of mine should I write any more. We left it at that.

Last Friday a new sitcom began: According to Bex, with Jessica Stephenson in the lead role. It is written and produced by Fred Barron.

The thing that irks me is this; the characters, location and situations they find themselves in - although not outright copies - are very, very similar to my script 'Single Secs'.

I'm wondering if Fred Barron is any relation to David Barron and if the script was passed on to him for production.

If this is the case, then I am a little upset. As with everyone else in this group, I work hard at my writing and rewriting and I enjoy it, but don't enjoy it when I send off my work only to be rejected and then used by someone else. If the script has been 'plagerised' then I would like to get to the bottom of it.

Does anyone know what I can about this?

Kaye


COMMENTS FROM MEMBERS
Posted by : at 15:09 on 12 January 2004
The dialogue is very sharp and often very funny.
The characters are good, contrasting bunch.
I can understand e.g's comment about the concept being slightly outdated, but I'm not so sure that you need to change the situation entirely.
Perhaps an alternative way of combating this issue is to, in effect, exaggerate the cliche even more.
You could make the male bosses even more (ridiculously) demanding or give the episode a more far-fetched or dramatic plot.
That might help your piece fit into a blurred area between real-life and parody; the kind of ground inhabited by The Office amongst others.
Maybe the problem at the moment is that it is a little bit TOO real?
Not that I want to give you a negative impression; I think you've got something really good to work with and build upon.


Hello,
Well, I liked this script very much. The writing is excellently thought-out (in both a technical and creative sense), and most of the characters are well-drawn, engaging and three-dimensional.
There are some excellent jokes: the boxing references made me laugh out loud, and the 'Director's antics on the phone was very funny, too.
I realise that this is an ensemble piece, but I would like to see a 'focal' character --someone we can empathise with.
Overall, this was, I thought, very good indeed. I'd like to see more.
Regards,

Blimey, this is a very dodgy one!! Well, hopefully you have a copy of your script with some kind of proof of the date it was written and of sending it to the BBC and of Barron's reply? If so, that's a good start. As for what to do next, no idea, but I'm sure someone here will have....

Cath

Thanks Cathy,

Yes - emails have dates on them, and I sent the script and proposal and episode breakdown as attachments.

Kaye

Kaye, I have friends who write TV drama and sit-coms and am not aware of any branch where the turn-around from idea to scripts to budget, casting, shooting and broadcast could happen inside a year. It sounds as if it's a combination of coincidence and bad luck, and for your sake I hope that's the case. For it to be otherwise would be so painful... I'm sure there are others on site who know more about this, but the usual lead-in would be at least two or three years, I would think:-) Shyama

Shyama
hi, thanks. I started marketing this script in January 03 and uploaded it to the BBC web site in the summer of that year. I officially sent it out via an email attachment in November 03 and received replies in January 04.
The only trouble with this is that I don't want to have my name banded around as a 'trouble maker' ... I simply would like to get to the bottom of this and receive fair judgement.
Kaye

Kaye, In that case, take it further. First check the name of the production company that made the comedy and look up its website or call them to find out if the producer with whom you had an exchange is involved with them in any way. If it was made in-house, call the production office and ask. If you think there has been an infringement of your copyright and that your ideas have been plagiarised, take it right to the top. I don't know who's head of BBC comedy, but that's where you need to write/phone. They would take a complaint of this nature very seriously, particularly as your ideas started on their own website. That said, be careful how you word it, and try and get as much information as is possible about the provenance of the programme before you do that. Good luck:-)

thanks for this scoops. I've located my script on the BBC Get Writing web site and it was uploaded on 4th January 2004. It was reviewed on 19th January 2004 and again a couple of days later.
Does anyone know anything about Rude Boy Productions? I've tried looking them up in my 2001 PACT Directory, but they're not listed.
I don't wish to 'blame' anyone, but would like to satisfy my curiosity.
Kaye

Hi Kaye, Sorry I can't help but I feel for you. I've suspected my ideas have been copied before too (in another area, not writing)...so I know how much it hurts. But to be used in a succesful sitcom ...wow that must be hard!

I hope you get this sorted. My only advice is don't steam in...arm yourslef with every bit of info you can, prepare your case and be sure you actually have one.

A quick google search brings up helpful sites like this one http://www.scriptwritermagazine.com/legal3.htm

Good luck,

Derek.

Kaye,
You can pinch other peoples ideas and they can pinch yours. It is the use, the expression of the idea(s) that really affects this question of copyright.

The whole question around copyright is what you would do if you felt that your work had been stolen. Indeed how far you would be willing to go if you could clearly prove the theft.

Establish exactly what it is that you can claim was stolen, can you substantiate this with specifics, dates etc? Remember that you are in the weaker position and the onus for proof is on you.

If you decide to take positive action then you do indeed run the risk of having your name 'remembered'. If you do, take this up by seeking advice from the Head of the BBC Television, their Head of PR or even their Legal department. Have words on the phone. It is unlikely that you will receive any 'proper' advice from the Contractors who produce the programme.

Any breach of copyright legal action is a license for Lawyers to print money.

I have a strong feeling that you are unlikely to have your curiosity satisfied.

Len

Kaye, a bit of web detective work reveals that Fred Barron didn't write the series, it was commissioned out. At least two of the episodes were written by a young lady called Katie Douglas who has an impressive resume of awards and prizes.

I can find no relationship between David & Fred Barron.

I'm by no means an expert (or even amateur!) in this but I'd suspect that unless there is some very specific element you can point to then you're going to have difficulty proving anything in these circumstances. If, for example, you had a character who was a gay coal miner with a black barrister boyfriend with a pet parrot and these exact roles were replicated then you may have some grounds; just having a gay relationship wouldn't be enough.

On a personal note, many, many years ago I wrote a novel describing a virtual world that was indistinguishable from reality. People became trapped in the world slowly dying from hunger, etc. Literally weeks after I finished one of the final drafts, the Red Dwarf book 'Better than Life' was published. The similarities between the two were legion yet I know there was no plagarism involved (in either direction!) because I hadn't submitted the story anywhere and had never heard of the published work.

It seems to me that the world in general (news, technology, etc.) has an influence on writers and it's not that surprising that the same ideas occur to many people at the same time. I haven't read your script (but will attempt to do so) and haven't seen the sitcom so I can't comment in this specific case.

It's infuriating - I'm still moaning, as my post proves! - but I think most of the time it's just coincidence.

Jon

Sorry, newbie come to this late...

2 observations...

The BBC really don't have to plagiarise. And it's not worth their reputation to try.

Similarity between scenes I would guess is pretty hard to avoid - According to Bex is, in all honesty, generic dross and Jessica Simpson is capable of far better - Spaced being an example.

There isn't one single scene that hasn't been done to death elsewhere.



http://www.write-across-europe.com

I think, not being a fan of According to Bex and agreeing with the comment above, the most fancinating part of this thread is the problem of orginality. It is getting harder and harder to be orginal in story-telling and I would refer people to the link below which sounds like an interesting book. And I am not saying that I am original - a long way from it...but ideas are everyuones to have. As soon as you have yours, you can't stop another person having the same one.

On According to Bex, I wish they had accepted yours scriptplayed, because the BBC's attempt is rubbish. I had such high hopes, but Jessica Stevenson let me down - how can she sleep at night...what do you mean she owes me nothing! I loved Spaced

<Added>

The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories

I totally agree with the last 2 comments!! What on earth is Jessica S doing in the dreadful "Bex"??!! I absolutely LOVED "Spaced" - she's wasted in what she's doing now!!

==:O

LoL

A
xxx

James, although it may seem that we are struggling to find good plots, I'm not sure that originality is getting any harder than it has been for a very long time. If we accept the '7 basic plots' argument (and here I'm referring to the concept - I haven't read the book) then orginality started being a problem with the 8th novel/film/play written.

That's a nonsense, of course, so there must be more to this business of writing than 7 (or 10 or 100) basic concepts. For example, if you were able to lift an entire plot, complete with characters and situations and simply set it in a different town it'd change dramatically. OK, so it'd be pretty derivative but once you start changing the locations, the speech and behaviour of the locals, the lighting on the streets, etc. then the whole thing begins to change.

A good example of this is [u]Forbidden Planet[/u] (one of my favourite all time SF movies), a film which is [u]The Tempest[/u] moved to another time and place in exactly the way I describe above. I'd be very happy to have been the scriptwriter of this movie.

I'm not suggesting that this is good literary practice but in my opinion it's a good way to counter the 'there's nothing new to be written' argument. We have had the concept of limited plots for a very long time and it hasn't noticeably affected literary output

Jon

Good point shellgrip, but the more I watch telly, the more I think originality isn't an issue any more. Of course we can say things differently, but as more and more books are published, the legacy become larger and larger and that must mean that originality is pushed to the limit.