Hi Mike, that first line is a very endearing sentiment, and I see from your profile that you like Yeats, who of course said, in one of my favourite poems:

Tread carefully, because you tread on my dreams .

The problem is, though, if you're writing to get published, then you're up against an awful lot of people who have the same dream, and, speaking personally, I think it would be useful to know if you are wasting your time. Part of the reason I haven't posted any work yet, is that I am not as thick-skinned as I would like to be, and want to make sure that when I show my work to the world that it is as good as I can make it. I'm not there yet.

Of course reactions to your work will be subjective, but if you get lots of feedback, there may be recurring themes which could be helpful.

To conclude, I think that if people are really sensitive to criticism, then they should keep their writing private.

Al.

<Added>

Apologies for the misquotation. It should be:
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams

I think that if a person clicks the, 'go on I can take it,' then that should be taken at face value. One of the positive aspects of a website like this is that you are more likely to receive honest criticism than in a writing group.

Emphasise the fact that your opinion is to an extent subjective, and the fact that its only your opinion.

Personally I always want the truth put as tactfully as possible.

Amnesia.
If its me, go ahead, please!

Hi Al,
Glad you're a Yeats man. Re the dream thing, I wasn't being literal; intended to mean, balance each negative with a positive. After all, no-one intentionally produces bad work, so you can at least always applaud the creative energy informing the work. Or something like that!

Best,

Mike

Au Contraire, Mike. Sometimes I intentionally produce bad work. And when I do, I should be punished.


Yours in masochistic/sadistic self-flagellation,

Anonymous

Zut alors, Belle du Jour - you are amongst us!!!

Yes, Al T... I am here... and my venus is wearing furs...

(okay! okay! clean it up! back on topic you two!)

OK, I've just read this through quickly before posting it and it might seem a bit harsh but it ONLY my opinion. I do not intend any offence but I understand that some opinions can be seen as offensive, tough! Who said life was fair and just?


Well,

What a mixed bag of comments. Though on the whole I think I was right and I shall go wtih my gut feeling and I will comment.

If someone states that they can take it then I think we are all agreed it's no holds barred. Hell I don't mind if you think my work is crap and say so, even if you don't offer anything constructive! If one person says something ok, that's their opinion, I'll hava think about it but no big deal. If a hundred people say the same thing then I will sit up and take note.

Nell we simply can't go through life worrying about other people all day long. I would like to think of myself as a considerate person but at the end of the day if someone's entire family has just died in a freak tornado, they lost their job, have been on the dole for six months and have just been diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis, I don't care! Yes its horrible, yes it's a tragedy but it's not mine, and I have enough to worry about as it is. We could speculate ad infinitum about the other person. They can take it and if they can't they shouldn't be posting any stuff on this site. I think I can safely say that every writer writes to be read, and you will never please everyones tastes. If we are all serious about wanting to succeed we are going to have to take an awful lot of shit before we do!

All in all if you ask for it, and I give it, I'll give it straight. As should we all its the reponsibility of our friends and loved ones to lie about how good our writing is!

Geoff

Got a feeling I'm gonna take some stick for this one. Oh, well........

"Go on I can take it!"

I don't have a lot to add to what's been said already, except perhaps to think sometimes about the amount of effort which has gone into a piece of work even if you think it's got no redeeming features. Sometimes criting can go horribly wrong, I'm not very good at reading irony for example and could easily miss the point, have done in fact on more than one occasion. Some days we're more inspired than on other days in criting, as well. It certainly can be very subjective, if you don't like the 'material' you're reading it can be difficult to do a good crit for it. I don't think there is any harm in saying so if that happens. Also someone might write a lousy piece of work one time and a good one the next time,- a writer's work can often be patchy. We're not obliged to crit every piece that comes to our attention, but I think if you find you are reading a lot of different pieces, but making no comments, it's time to ask why.
As has been said already, honesty tempered with restraint is the best stance maybe? So words like crap or rubbish don't help,(very emotive words), and because we're writers ourselves we should be able to find other words to say it. But leave the person with some dignity, - and on that I'm with Nell.
Becca.

For what it's worth, I think that it's probably harder to write a harsh crit because you feel obliged to back up what you say with examples. You can get away with saying, "I think this is great!" on here, nobody is going to moan too much that you didn't elaborate, but there's no way you can just say, "I think this is crap." You might as well not say anything.

Becca,

I totally understand what you say and to be honest and fair I did read some of the other work uploaded by this person and it was infinitely better than the first pieces I read. And it's so true what Peter says if you think something is great say why!

Geoff

Geoff, I've never in all the time I've been on WW lied in my comments, or suggested that anyone else should do so. All I'm saying is that one can be honest without being insulting or brutal. Your first post stated: 'I don't think I could do this without stating outright how awful it is.' I'm saying that if want to you can make the effort and find the words to offer some constuctive criticism without doing a demolition job first. Build on what's there, you don't have to destroy and start from ground level.

Geoff, what I'm interested in now, is has anyone else commented on this so called dire work and if so have they been positive or negative?

Writewords is a writing community. Community to me means support. Why would any member want to tell another their work is ‘truly awful’?
What sort of support is that?
"Go on I can take it!" - does not mean ‘Kick me.’
If that's the way this site is going, then I'm off.
Dawn,

Julie,

Yes and it was positive and I don't agree with it at all.

Dawn,

I have no intention of kicking anyone but having seen that this person can actually write makes it all the worse! Don't go leaving just because we don't agree we are here to discuss, support and criticise each others work but we are also here to argue and really debate some things. So you think I'm wrong then tell me, that's why I put up the post. We can't alway go around agreeing with everyone and being nice about everything. I am going to comment but I shall have to wait for a while now because everyone will know which piece I'm on about! I'm not just going to say "This is shite!" that achieves nothing, hell I do that all day anyway! Ofcourse I'll elaborate.

Have to admit though that it's really interesting to see all the different views. That's why I like this site everyone has a different slant on things. I do wish we could be a little stronger with our crits though.

Geoff

I don't know how many of you have watched American Pop Idol but the first rounds were particularly revealing - I watched open mouthed as hundreds of young Americans refused to believe that they were not talented enough to make the cut. They pouted; they stamped their feet in rage; they flounced off. Truly scary; an entire generation with no self-awareness whatsoever. Just massive self-belief and ego run rampant. And we know why.
In America no one is ever allowed to be critical - young people must be 'positively reinforced' and constantly praised to the skies. Even when they are absolute shit.
In short, unqualified praise is not only useless, it's damaging and dangerous. Unrestrained criticism is of course, just as bad.
I think that the purpose of this site is to nurture and in that respect anyone commenting on someone else's work has a responsibility to leaven their criticism with constructive comment (which most people seem to do). So criticise away Geoff, but positively. It's all about balance really. Ying and Yang.

Scottwil