Interesting piece. Like most of ZS's writing, I think it could have been cut by half - there is a lot of self-indulgence twaddle and characteristic posing, in my humble opinion - but a few of her comments did ring true. For instance,

In the transition from the dream to the real it has shed its aura of perfection; its shape is warped, unrecognisable. Something got in the way, something almost impossible to articulate.

Writers know that between the platonic ideal of the novel and the actual novel there is always the pesky self - vain, deluded, myopic, cowardly, compromised. That's why writing is the craft that defies craftsmanship: craftsmanship alone will not make a novel great.

"Why, sir, are you so eager to please?" That's how I tend to define failure - work done for what Heidegger called "Das Mann", the indeterminate "They" who hang over your shoulder, warping your sense of judgment; what he (not me) would call your authenticity.

To speak personally, the very reason I write is so that I might not sleepwalk through my entire life.

(Really liked this, even if it does sound a bit self-consciously profound)

The more accurate analogy is that of the amateur musician placing her sheet music on the stand and preparing to play. She must use her own, hard-won, skills to play this piece of music. The greater the skill, the greater the gift she gives the composer and the composer gives her. This is a conception of "reading" we rarely hear now.

For what it's worth, I don't think that the "perfect" novel is meant to be a flawless one (what's a flawless novel, anyway?). I think it's simply (or not so simply, as Smith proves), that novel that the writer set out to write.


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Initially I was cheesed off by the story of Clive, which suggests that all you have to do to get a critically-acclaimed novel on the shelves is sit at an ergonomic chair for three years pondering a bit and then hand your manuscript in, even though you privately think it's not so good. 'His book gets an agent, his agent gets a publisher, his novel goes out into the world, it is well received.' Well, bully for Clive.

LOL! I agree ;)

Finally finished it. Interesting.

Strange article, not sure whether I understand what she's saying. Seemed to boil down to readers should but a bit of effort in, which writers always say. And that the writer's sense of self is integral to their writing, through exploration of the world in the novel, and that personality is evident through literary influences and style. Did I summarise that right?

Why was it so long though? What did I miss? She seems to be grasping for something in the article that she can't quite articulate and I'm not sure what it is.

Not sure she's fairly representing Eliot's essay either.

I suppose I always end up wondering about the self-consciousness of this stuff. That people now set out to be great "stylists" and win prizes, whereas in the past (I am probably talking dim and distant - epic past) they were telling stories and the style fed into that or enhanced that. Sometimes it seems to me that the story gets taken out of the equation as though this is the low stuff and you get left with the nice sentences and the 10009th way of describing someone possibly "rummmaging" in a handbag. To be honest, I am not that interested in the truth provided by a beautifully observed rummage in a handbag (and surely sometimes it is more authentic not to belabour the act of rummaging in a bag by making it "strange" and new. In which case, Smith's perceived lapse in using this phrase all the time is fine by me.)

(In the time it has taken me to write this Lammi said her piece about cliches with which I agree. Sometimes cliches are right. Sometimes self-conscious avoidance of cliche becomes another sort of cliche)(oh hell)

I like the way in the past the stories were the things that carried the view of the world, the messages, the nuances. I think stories are hugely important in society and culture and inform our sense of ourselves and how we view the world. Story now often just seems to be viewed as a motor or a framework for the writing, not the other way round. Sometimes this is great. But a lot is quite dull and overwrought. And I can't help thinking this is a loss. The ideal is for the two to mutually enhance and support each other.

I know I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here and none of this is anything to do with what she was on about. But that is why I started thinking about.

But still, I should point out I write stupid farce so its not like I can pretend to have aspirations to write a great or perfect novel. Just musing aloud...well, not aloud, obviously, as that would be a bit sad. Chatting to myself about literary articles.

For writers have only one duty, as I see it: the duty to express accurately their way of being in the world.

If this is true, then does the notion of a 'perfect' novel make any sense? 'Great Men and Women' exist but not perfect ones. So if a novel is a reflection of the writer as a person then perfection cannot exist.
I think Zadies's notion of the impact any single novel can have on anyone is bit inflated. Reading as an activity and, collectively, the books I've read have had a big impact on me but no individual novel has had nearly as much impact on my life as any of the real people in it.

Another thing Zadie Smith might find is that as she gets older, what she sees now as cliches become truths. I remember thinking, as a wee slip of a girl, that I was going to subvert all kinds of trends and dynamics in life. But in the end you find you're doing exactly what everyone said you would. It's simultaneously comforting and annoying as hell.

She's a hugely clever and talented writer but she's still very young, bless her.

I've read a lot about Zadie Smith and I like her immensely as a person. She seems to be trying really hard to be honest and authentic and to avoid being in love with herself as a writer - which is saying a lot.

I don't like her books. I was impressed with the writing in White Teeth at first. But then I felt she was trying too hard - to be witty, to be clever, to be original. The story seemed lacking in something - maybe in emotional depth?
The Autograoh Man I found terrible. I couldn't evenget half way through it,. And I read about three chapters of On Beauty before giving up.

I read an interview with Zadie somewhere where she seemed to imply that academic study was of more value to a writer than life experience - I think she referred specifically to travel abroad as being fairly useless.
That may be her problem. Too much academics, too little life experience. Maybe she should just get out there and LIVE.
OK, I haven't read this article yet, but I now will.

RE: rummaging in purses

Does Ms Smith mean the sort of purse my old mum used to keep her Co-Op divi in, or does she mean a handbag? 'Rummage' seems like a large, expansive action to me, and inappropriate for a small British purse, but it would work for a bigger reticule (eh? wossat?). Could the aspiring literary stylist 'ferret' with impunity, purse-wise?

Nice to hear what Ms Smith abhors in her own work. The problem is collocation, innit? Some words just want to hang out with their familiars ("Rummage and Purse" - Literary Consultants to the gentry) - and as for cliche, if you're doing a scene in 3rd person but saturating the language with the character's idiolect, then cliche will be necessary.

Jim

Rummage and Purse" - Literary Consultants to the gentry - Lol, JoPo.

I've been discussing the article with a more academic friend and she's opened my eyes, really, to the central unity of the argument, which is that basic and inevitable tension between the writer's need to be true to his/her inner self, and the sense of Das Mann looking over the shoulder. I got this point first time round, but didn't see it as the 'stem' of the other arguments. So I think, on a rer-read, I understand it better.

Still, though, it's a highly academic, esoteric kind of discussion to which there's no 'solution' as such - just something to ponder with regard to ourselves as writers and readers.

Does what she's saying, this tension, apply only to literary novels, do you think?

and the sense of Das Mann looking over the shoulder.

Sorry (cringe) but that would be der Mann.

Ooh, sorry. Didn't check the article (and know no German whatsoever).

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Then again, it's what ZS says: That's how I tend to define failure - work done for what Heidegger called "Das Mann", the indeterminate "They" who hang over your shoulder, warping your sense of judgment; what he (not me) would call your authenticity.

Love 'Rummage and Purse'.

I did try but couldn't read the article - are the books easier?

Sarah

"Purse" I assume means "handbag" - hard to rummage in a purse! in the US they call handbags purses - or worse yet, pocketbooks.

Interesting article on the whole. Even more interesting thread.

I have to say I did keep scrolling down to see how much more there was. But I felt I had to finish out of a sense of duty. I didn't want to be one of those readers who let Zadie down because I failed in my duty. Though I do worry about books that have to be read out of a sense of duty. I like and appreciate writers who take risks in their work, and produce what may be thought 'demanding' books. I happily read and enjoy such books. But I don't do it out of duty. Or at least, I don't think I do. I do it because that's what I'm into - or one of the things I'm into.

But I'm just a genre hack, so what do I know?

I've had that dream, by the way. The one about the 'perfect' book. It's a recurring one. So I particularly appreciated that part of the article and her interpretation of the dream.

I may be cynical, but I can't help thinking the point of the article was to affirm ZS's status as a 'great writer'. Not merely a brilliant writer, or a very clever writer, or an intelligent writer - but a great writer. I think only a self-consciously 'great writer', a writer of 'great books', would think of writing an essay like this. She may have been put up to it by some press officer. She has to keep up her 'coverage' - writing something like this is one way of doing it. She's staking a claim, I think.

One other thing struck me. That Clive thing. What was all that about? She put onto him the major sin of writing a book that failed in a big way - a book that the author knew lacked authenticity or integrity but which was still a critical success. She confessed herself guilty of the slightly lesser sin of over-using the phrase 'rummaging in her handbag'. Hmmm. Maybe it would have been more honest (authentic) for her to say, you know: 'Secretly, like a lot of authors I know, I think my books are not quite as good as people say they are'. But instead she invented this guy Clive.

Of course, Zadie Smith confessing that she had doubts about her work would have been a bit like Gerald Ratner saying all his jewellery is crap. So she had to get round it some way. Enter Clive. I'd quite like to read Clive's book.

Funny thing was that while reading her article, I was listening to Strawberry Fields Forever, and when the line "Living is easy with eyes closed" came on I realised Lennon had pretty much summed up much of her long, long argument in one sentence... :p

Like other WWs, I think the Clive bit was a dreadful start - for an article appealing for a certain type of imaginative generosity it's a remarkably smug and hypocritical way to begin. The rest of it I quite liked, although the bit on cliches in language (rummaging in the purse) is pretty much nicked wholesale from one of George Orwell's essays on writing. He also appeals against such "lego block" writing, where you're not thinking about every word but using ready-made clumps of language.

Her arguments about authenticity were interesting, but cut short - as she says, how can any one of us be inauthentic? And yet the idea of authenticity is such a key thing in today's celebrity culture.

The most interesting part of the ZS article was the emails from authors about what they hate in their own work - I wish she'd included more of this, and also, been brave enough to answer her own question...

I'd quite like to read Clive's book.

It's called White Teeth

Seriously, though, I agree with Roger. She's staking a claim. That said, I'm finally starting to enjoy On Beauty...

Love Roger's comment and have to agree. He says it so well...

I keep thinking Uncle Toby in Tristram Shandy - 'Now that other fellow, anyone could see he was an actor'

Probably misquoted.